New Book of WW in Harlem in the 20's and 30's.

[Soulthinker]

Here are two links I had found out from a new book published of White women during the Harlem Renaisance. It is called Miss Anne in Harlem:The White Woman of the Black Renaissance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/b...rs-in-a-strange-land.html?pagewanted=all&_r=O
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/16/22145233/introducing-miss-anne-the-white-woman-of-a-black-renaissance

 

[The Dark King]

Gonna check it out

 

[JamalSpunky]

I'll admit, soulthinker, this is a good find you came across. I like this particular point I found in the secription of the book from one source:


The 1920s in New York City was a time of freedom, experimentation, and passion—with Harlem at the epicenter. White men could go uptown to see jazz and modern dance, but women who embraced black culture too enthusiastically could be ostracized.


Hmmm. Seems like some things never change. Black America, particularly black women, had a fit just when white chicks like Miley Cyrus appeared in a damn rap video (and this was before her VMA controversy, one which curiously Robin Thicke was able to avoid). White females who take a stab at R&B (teena Marie the exception) and hip-hop have even a harder time of being accepted by the black and white communities than white males who dip a toe in those same waters. The same thing could be said of jazz and blues way back then and now.

 

[medullaslashin]

I'll admit, soulthinker, this is a good find you came across. I like this particular point I found in the secription of the book from one source:


The 1920s in New York City was a time of freedom, experimentation, and passion—with Harlem at the epicenter. White men could go uptown to see jazz and modern dance, but women who embraced black culture too enthusiastically could be ostracized.


Hmmm. Seems like some things never change. Black America, particularly black women, had a fit just when white chicks like Miley Cyrus appeared in a damn rap video (and this was before her VMA controversy, one which curiously Robin Thicke was able to avoid). White females who take a stab at R&B (teena Marie the exception) and hip-hop have even a harder time of being accepted by the black and white communities than white males who dip a toe in those same waters. The same thing could be said of jazz and blues way back then and now.

good points jamal. never looked at it that way before, but it rings true

 

[TERRASTAR18]

good points jamal. never looked at it that way before, but it rings true

I'll admit, soulthinker, this is a good find you came across. I like this particular point I found in the secription of the book from one source:


The 1920s in New York City was a time of freedom, experimentation, and passion—with Harlem at the epicenter. White men could go uptown to see jazz and modern dance, but women who embraced black culture too enthusiastically could be ostracized.


Hmmm. Seems like some things never change. Black America, particularly black women, had a fit just when white chicks like Miley Cyrus appeared in a damn rap video (and this was before her VMA controversy, one which curiously Robin Thicke was able to avoid). White females who take a stab at R&B (teena Marie the exception) and hip-hop have even a harder time of being accepted by the black and white communities than white males who dip a toe in those same waters. The same thing could be said of jazz and blues way back then and now.

what does bw have to do with this? black ppl
dislike miley because she is doing a caricature of blacks like lil debbie and kreayshawn. they use black ppl to change their squeaky clean image because blacks are associated with negativity in white america's eyes. ppl liked teena marie and robin thicke because they genuinely associate with the black community.

iggy azazelia is disliked because she has no talent and is famous for being a white female rapper.

and as a sidenote i don't see how your example relates to the ww in harlem. the ww were worried about wm, the dominant group in society. in our example you compare it to a marginalized group with no power. to conflate the two is nonsensical.

 

[Soulthinker]

No doubt WW had paid a lot for hanging with brothers. Which is a reason why there are a few info about them. I'm pleased there is a book written about them since most are mentioned in other books on IR.

 

[medullaslashin]

what does bw have to do with this? black ppl
dislike miley because she is doing a caricature of blacks like lil debbie and kreayshawn. they use black ppl to change their squeaky clean image because blacks are associated with negativity in white america's eyes. ppl liked teena marie and robin thicke because they genuinely associate with the black community.

iggy azazelia is disliked because she has no talent and is famous for being a white female rapper.

and as a sidenote i don't see how your example relates to the ww in harlem. the ww were worried about wm, the dominant group in society. in our example you compare it to a marginalized group with no power. to conflate the two is nonsensical.

I don't lose much sleep over miley's brand of "racism". Like I said before if she wants to put her face into a giant black woman's ass, let her have her fun. been there

But there's other stuff, like black women having problems with ww appearing in rap videos, ww being called "mud shark" by white guys when she likes a black guy (while white guys who date out are cool and "progressive", and don't look down on one another when they fuck whatever hos of whatever color)

american society has long made it taboo for ww to get too friendly with bm, right up to the modern taboo that black women tried to impose for decades (before they themselves started dated out)

There's definitely a double standard

 

[Gorath]

I think back to a story my saxophone teacher told me when he was growing up in NYC. He hung out in Harlem a lot and played at the Apollo Theater as a jazz musician. One day he was playing in the Billy Eckstine big band. He was given the duty of bringing the payroll to the bank. Just before he was about to go, Billy asked him where he was parked. My instructor said he was parked a couple of blocks away. Eckstine called him a dumbass and had his bodyguard go with him to his car so he won't get robbed. I guess in the 20's and 30's, a woman had only herself to worry about, especially since women were viewed as second class citizens. But, there were those who didn't care about those things and they enjoyed their freedom to live as they choose. I guess I will have to listen to Little Richard's Miss Anne.

 

[flaminghetero]

I don't lose much sleep over miley's brand of "racism". Like I said before if she wants to put her face into a giant black woman's ass, let her have her fun. been there

But there's other stuff, like black women having problems with ww appearing in rap videos, ww being called "mud shark" by white guys when she likes a black guy (while white guys who date out are cool and "progressive", and don't look down on one another when they fuck whatever hos of whatever color)

american society has long made it taboo for ww to get too friendly with bm, right up to the modern taboo that black women tried to impose for decades (before they themselves started dated out)

There's definitely a double standard

WM and BW are obsessed with controlling BM.

WM want to stay in control and BW want WM to stay in control.

BM+WW = The end of white supremacy

 

[TERRASTAR18]

I don't lose much sleep over miley's brand of "racism". Like I said before if she wants to put her face into a giant black woman's ass, let her have her fun. been there

But there's other stuff, like black women having problems with ww appearing in rap videos, ww being called "mud shark" by white guys when she likes a black guy (while white guys who date out are cool and "progressive", and don't look down on one another when they fuck whatever hos of whatever color)

american society has long made it taboo for ww to get too friendly with bm, right up to the modern taboo that black women tried to impose for decades (before they themselves started dated out)

There's definitely a double standard

you may not care but it still doesn't disprove my point.

and again your fixation on bw! white people are judge on their genuineness. point blank. they are criticised when they co-opt other ppl's cultures.

america isn't black women. america for the most part is white men. so the dbl standard is with them and the stupid white women who cave into it.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

WM and BW are obsessed with controlling BM.

WM want to stay in control and BW want WM to stay in control.

BM+WW = The end of white supremacy

wrong on the first, wrong on the 2nd, wrong the 3rd. the end of white supremacy will come when black ppl take care and ownership of their communities. no amount of f^&king and sucking is gonna change that. tbh what you and the other guy are doing is part of the problem.

 

[medullaslashin]

you may not care but it still doesn't disprove my point.

and again your fixation on bw! white people are judge on their genuineness. point blank. they are criticised when they co-opt other ppl's cultures.

america isn't black women. america for the most part is white men. so the dbl standard is with them and the stupid white women who cave into it.

the fact that most black people aren't even thinking about miley disproves your point

And "america isn't black women. america for the most part is white men"? What does that even mean? :mrgreen:

We're talking about whose forays into mixing with blacks is accepted and whose is scrutinized and frowned upon. There's a double standard. White men get more of a pass than white women.

Black women object to white women in the mix, white men object to white women in the mix. Black women accuse them of being there for the dick, white men call them "mud sharks".

Pretty much no one raises an eyebrow when white men mix, even though - whiteboys being whiteboys and black girls being black girls - they're notorious for trying to antagonize black men with their "love".

I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same to white women. I've personally witnessed white men trying to rub the asian girl phenomenon in white women's faces

on the flipside, Bm with ww get hated on even when they're just doing their own thing, no childish antics necessary.

There is indeed a double standard.

 

[medullaslashin]

tbh what you and the other guy are doing is part of the problem.

how does that work? :mrgreen: Walk us through it

 

[JamalSpunky]

what does bw have to do with this? black ppl
dislike miley because she is doing a caricature of blacks like lil debbie and kreayshawn. they use black ppl to change their squeaky clean image because blacks are associated with negativity in white america's eyes. ppl liked teena marie and robin thicke because they genuinely associate with the black community.

Who determines who is genuine? When can someone "cross the color lines" and try new things without having the public ASSUME that all they are trying to do is take advantage of so-called black art forms? Why doesn't Justin Beiber get slapped around for that (hanging out with his posse that includes gangsta rappers from time to time). Why didn't Justin Timberlake ahead of him get any grief for going the R&B route when he hooked up with Timberland? If his ex Brittany had attempted that the black community would have told her to "hold up" and yes that chorus would be led by black women because in case your head has been buried in the sand it is ALWAYS led by black women. Do you want me to provide links of black ladies writing articles for Grio about the epidemic of white chicks showing up in R&B videos? You want me to point you to a site like Shadow and Act where some black women wrote some insane article tha started off attacking Miley for supposedly degrading black women during her VMA performance (once more....no complaints against Robin Thicke who got off scott free just as Justin Timberlake did with that Janet Jackson halftime show)? It gets tiring after awhile. Some white rap duo puts out the biggest rap hip song ever and some white male (Thicke) becomes the first R&B male singer in a long time to have a long-running #1 hit on Billboards Top 100, and yet it is white women who are trying to appropriate "our culture"? Give me a break.

And the cool things about black dudes I come across is that, for example, they don't have a problem with Thicke whatsoever. This is in contrats to about six years back when Joss Stone, a white female with an affinity for black music, was trying to make some headway herself in the soul market and even found herself on R&B stations for a brief moment. About a half dozen times I came across black women in the office who either complained about this or turned the station when her song came on as they whined about her being played on a black station in the first place. That type of mentality didn't just pop up overnight. It's been there for awhile.

iggy azazelia is disliked because she has no talent and is famous for being a white female rapper.

Maybe. But that one major rap magazine mag (either The Source or XXL) named her one of the best new artists two years ago when she came on the scene. So there are people who think she is talented.And that PISSED off Azelia Banks (sp?) who went nuts over her inclusion. Banks ain't complaining whenever some white dude gets such honors.

and as a sidenote i don't see how your example relates to the ww in harlem. the ww were worried about wm, the dominant group in society. in our example you compare it to a marginalized group with no power. to conflate the two is nonsensical.

Go read further about the book. It wasn't just about white men and white society ostracizing white women for having the audacity to hang out with the colored folk; they got grief from black people too, particularly black women. There are some excerpts on book sites which carry links to this book and one of those excerpts make that point.

 

[JamalSpunky]

I don't lose much sleep over miley's brand of "racism". Like I said before if she wants to put her face into a giant black woman's ass, let her have her fun. been there

But there's other stuff, like black women having problems with ww appearing in rap videos, ww being called "mud shark" by white guys when she likes a black guy

or my personal favorite....coalburners.

(while white guys who date out are cool and "progressive", and don't look down on one another when they fuck whatever hos of whatever color)

The number one interracial pairing in America according to statistics is:

white men + asian women

The number two interracial pairing in America is:

White men + non-white Hispanic women


But it is the black male that takes grief more than anybody from people in his community if he crosses the color line. Not even Asian males direct to Asian women anywhere near the lecturing and fury black females do to black men for hooking up with someone other than a sista. But, then again, if black males are weak and chicken shit enough to take it then mabe that explains why we are at the bottom of the economic ladder because no other males other than African American males even tolerate women of their own race/religion/ethnicity browbeating them over such an issue. And no other group of men come across like such gutless punks when such an issue arise.

There is this black guy who writes a column section for the Washington Post named Courtland Milloy. He displayed one of the worst examples of this mentality when he wrote about a trip to the movies in which he saw "Flight" with a predominantly black crowd. He wrote an entire column about how the people behind the movie insulted black women by having Denzel kiss "that white lady". The poor man was in horror as he had to look at the downcast faces of black women sitting next to him who were :gasp: taken aback by that. But Courtland Milloy tried to make the hurt go away by claimimg he could tell by the kiss that Denzel's character (or was it Denzel himself) was not really into that white woman. LOL. Seriously go Google this if you find it hard to believe. That was some pathetic shit and yet the WPost actually let it go to print. That was something like out of the Jim Crow days but it was coming from a grown ass black man in 2012 , not some redneck Alabamian from 1952. Sorry to get off track but it was simply so absurd.

 

[medullaslashin]

or my personal favorite....coalburners.





The number one interracial pairing in America according to statistics is:

white men + asian women

The number two interracial pairing in America is:

White men + non-white Hispanic women


But it is the black male that takes grief more than anybody from people in his community if he crosses the color line. Not even Asian males direct to Asian women anywhere near the lecturing and fury black females do to black men for hooking up with someone other than a sista. But, then again, if black males are weak and chicken shit enough to take it then mabe that explains why we are at the bottom of the economic ladder because no other males other than African American males even tolerate women of their own race/religion/ethnicity browbeating them over such an issue. And no other group of men come across like such gutless punks when such an issue arise.

There is this black guy who writes a column section for the Washington Post named Courtland Milloy. He displayed one of the worst examples of this mentality when he wrote about a trip to the movies in which he saw "Flight" with a predominantly black crowd. He wrote an entire column about how the people behind the movie insulted black women by having Denzel kiss "that white lady". The poor man was in horror as he had to look at the downcast faces of black women sitting next to him who were :gasp: taken aback by that. But Courtland Milloy tried to make the hurt go away by claimimg he could tell by the kiss that Denzel's character (or was it Denzel himself) was not really into that white woman. LOL. Seriously go Google this if you find it hard to believe. That was some pathetic shit and yet the WPost actually let it go to print. That was something like out of the Jim Crow days but it was coming from a grown ass black man in 2012 , not some redneck Alabamian from 1952. Sorry to get off track but it was simply so absurd.

Damn good post jamal. repped!

 

[flaminghetero]

wrong on the first, wrong on the 2nd, wrong the 3rd. the end of white supremacy will come when black ppl take care and ownership of their communities. no amount of f^&king and sucking is gonna change that. tbh what you and the other guy are doing is part of the problem.

Yeah right..

We had ownership of our communities and all it took was a few tricks here and there and voila....we have NOTHING.

Read 'the destruction of black civilization' by chancellor williams.

 

[flaminghetero]

the fact that most black people aren't even thinking about miley disproves your point

And "america isn't black women. america for the most part is white men"? What does that even mean? :mrgreen:

We're talking about whose forays into mixing with blacks is accepted and whose is scrutinized and frowned upon. There's a double standard. White men get more of a pass than white women.

Black women object to white women in the mix, white men object to white women in the mix. Black women accuse them of being there for the dick, white men call them "mud sharks".

Pretty much no one raises an eyebrow when white men mix, even though - whiteboys being whiteboys and black girls being black girls - they're notorious for trying to antagonize black men with their "love".

I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same to white women. I've personally witnessed white men trying to rub the asian girl phenomenon in white women's faces

on the flipside, Bm with ww get hated on even when they're just doing their own thing, no childish antics necessary.

There is indeed a double standard.

Only a damn fool.....a white boy....or a black female would deny anything you just wrote...

Go to ANY black family reuinion and you will see the double standard in real time...

BM shows up with a WW:

"no that monkey didnt bring that straggly ass white bitch around our family"

5 minutes later....a BW shows up with a WM:

"oh here come niecy and brad...chile they go' have some purdy chillums"

 

[Gorath]

Only a damn fool.....a white boy....or a black female would deny anything you just wrote...

Go to ANY black family reuinion and you will see the double standard in real time...

BM shows up with a WW:

"no that monkey didnt bring that straggly ass white bitch around our family"

5 minutes later....a BW shows up with a WM:

"oh here come niecy and brad...chile they go' have some purdy chillums"

I have cousins on both sides of my family who have married interracially. And they do come to the family reunions with their respective spouses. Sure, talk will be heard and that can't be helped.

 

[flaminghetero]

I have cousins on both sides of my family who have married interracially. And they do come to the family reunions with their respective spouses. Sure, talk will be heard and that can't be helped.

I didn't say the talk could or should be helped....just pointing out the double standards.