New Book of WW in Harlem in the 20's and 30's.

[orejon4]

With regard to asians rejecting outsiders: I don't think it's accurate to say they're uniformly harsh on outsiders.

Aren't asians parents notorious for bragging that their daughter is marrying a white guy? Aren't they also people that hold "hapas" as their highest standard of beauty?

White males are automatic kings in lots of asian cultures, particularly southeast asian cultures. Even people like chinese and taiwanese treat white men like demigods, if you go by the testimony of some asian males on other boards. "White-worship" is a strong tendency among asians, lots of asians say. White represents status among them and status is a prime directive in lots of asian cultures.

Not to mention asian-american culture. Sure, their mixed kids aren't considered asian, but that doesn't mean that relations with outsiders (whites) aren't prized among asians.

Not bashing them, just observing.

Love who you want to love, as long as it doesn't involve hating me. That's where too many people who love white men get it wrong

But anyway, to say that asians are consistently insular is a lil off.

One interesting observation about asians is the asians who clamor to mix with whites typically want to be seen as white, but the children of those unions almost always want to be seen as asian, while asian culture doesn't regard them as either

The "race" thing is straight up crazy. Glad I'm not possessed

I think there are huge differences between Asians in isolation, Asians in an interracial context and Asian-Americans. The purity thing is largely in a domestic, non-multicultural context. My cousin working in Japan talks to me about this a lot and one of my two best friends is married to a Japanese-American woman and they get to observe a lot of this up close, particularly the intra-Asian dynamics.

I think there are couple of things that drive Asian white-worship in contemporary society: 1) the identification of white with power/status; 2) the indigenous Asian fixation on pale skin and eye shape - they had these issues before even encountering whites, such as pale skin indicating wealth as opposed to tanned peasants. I think this is what drives the hapa obsession, they have the palest skin you can find on an Asian, generally; 3) their relative small size vis-a-vis the other races (generally speaking).

And you're spot-on about Asian-Americans. They are usually one of the extremes, Asian nationalists or overtly desiring white partners. To each his own, but I find it interesting.

That's news to me. I'm sure there are intra-african taboos, but I have a feeling that it's the same deal as most asians, with white men being okay while other kinds of people are more taboo.

I remember reading online somewhere in fact that there's a "white-worship" trend raging among east african women, in which pretty much any white man is a prize

I suspect that among muslims, it's more of a religious thing, and that west africans are more like afro-americans in that they don't tightly police their women's relations with outsiders. I'm no expert tho, to say the least.

Aren't there a couple of african guys on this board? (...and ww involved with african guys here?) Perhaps they can offer some insight.

The general white worship worldwide is, I think, a modern phenomena. But in terms of a normative state, I think most ethnic groups of men view women as their property and outside male access to "their" women is viewed like another group raiding your resources. I have encountered that among almost every foreign ethnic group of women that I have dated. The Nigerian thing, I agree, is a bit different. I hope some of the forum women can share their experiences as well.

 

[medullaslashin]

I haven't followed this thread post by post, but several of you guys have made reference to matriarchal and patriarchal societies, and FH (I think) expounded on this view of blacks being a matriarchal society. Can someone address that further? How does one differ from the other?

I realize that the more I know of blacks in America, the more I don't know. Please educate...

lovin this intellectual curiosity chesbay :smt023

I'd actually like to hear more opinions on this myself, and how it manifests in the culture.

I know that lots of african cultures were matrilineal, but matriarchal? hmm

Maybe FH is referring to the fact that afro cultures were never harshly patriarchal, like most other cultures wprldwide (?)

 

[Ches]

lovin this intellectual curiosity chesbay :smt023

I'd actually like to hear more opinions on this myself, and how it manifests in the culture.

I know that lots of african cultures were matrilineal, but matriarchal? hmm

Maybe FH is referring to the fact that afro cultures were never harshly patriarchal, like most other cultures wprldwide (?)

That's a huge part of why I'm here. Knowledge and understanding grows love and compassion.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

If I'm a racoon you must be a hamster or a gerbel.

Be gone BW...your cover is busted.

your mother was a black woman or did you forget clarence thomas? i'm a proud black man who loves all women not tap dancing walking uncle rufus like you.

 

[flaminghetero]

White hostility toward people of color has almost nothing to do with the women of the other races and everything to do with maintaining white male privilege. Many racist white men (except for racist pseudo-scientific ideologues or racial purists) sleep with women of other races. Where do you think much of the creole, mulatto and mestizo strata in formerly colonial societies come from? Men of every race strive to keep the men of other races at a disadvantage to maintain their own prerogatives. Women are largely not involved in this, off the radar and not considered by the men in question. That's why a white male will give a job to a black woman more readily than to a black man.

More times than not "people of color" are every bit as racist against Black people(especially BM) as are WM.

I hate that phrase.

It is misleading and implies a level of unity that is not there.

 

[flaminghetero]

your mother was a black woman or did you forget clarence thomas? i'm a proud black man who loves all women not tap dancing walking uncle rufus like you.

Your father was a Black man or did you forget that Aunt Jemima??

Back on the pancake box with your tired vaudeville act.

 

[flaminghetero]

I haven't followed this thread post by post, but several of you guys have made reference to matriarchal and patriarchal societies, and FH (I think) expounded on this view of blacks being a matriarchal society. Can someone address that further? How does one differ from the other?

I realize that the more I know of blacks in America, the more I don't know. Please educate...

Black people are America's only matriarchy.

We are the only group with more boys up for adoption than girls..
We are the only group that leave our inheritance and businesses to our daughters instead of our sons.

Just look at the names of our boys..
Dontrelle instead of Don
Rontrelle instead of Ron
Marquise instead of Marcus.

Who else does that????

The only thing African we were allowed to keep is the Matriarchy..everything else was banned.

Why do you think BM WW couples are slammed while BW WM couples are praised?

The reason whites...latinos...arabs...asians...ect ect are male dominant is because the FEMALES have a BOY child preference.

BW have a girl child preference..making us a matriarchy.

Ironically

Men have nothing to do with it.

 

[The Dark King]

Black people are America's only matriarchy.

We are the only group with more boys up for adoption than girls..
We are the only group that leave our inheritance and businesses to our daughters instead of our sons.

Just look at the names of our boys..
Dontrelle instead of Don
Rontrelle instead of Ron
Marquise instead of Marcus.

Who else does that????

The only thing African we were allowed to keep is the Matriarchy..everything else was banned.

Why do you think BM WW couples are slammed while BW WM couples are praised?

The reason whites...latinos...arabs...asians...ect ect are male dominant is because the FEMALES have a BOY child preference.

BW have a girl child preference..making us a matriarchy.

Ironically

Men have nothing to do with it.

I got family with that name and Jamaicans are very patriarchal. So some things aren't exactly universal but as far as African American culture I do agree with you. I think a lot of this shit could be alleviated if people called others out on their bs when they bring it up. Since this whole Scandal thing is sweeping the black female demographic like wild fire I am very quick to shut down any criticism bw throw at me. If you support Olivia Pope, and they all do, not another peep can be said about bm with ww.

 

[flaminghetero]

I got family with that name and Jamaicans are very patriarchal. So some things aren't exactly universal but as far as African American culture I do agree with you. I think a lot of this shit could be alleviated if people called others out on their bs when they bring it up. Since this whole Scandal thing is sweeping the black female demographic like wild fire I am very quick to shut down any criticism bw throw at me. If you support Olivia Pope, and they all do, not another peep can be said about bm with ww.

word.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Your father was a Black man or did you forget that Aunt Jemima??

Back on the pancake box with your tired vaudeville act.

am i cooning like you sellout boy? nope.

 

[buglerroller]

your mother was a black woman or did you forget clarence thomas? i'm a proud black man who loves all women not tap dancing walking uncle rufus like you.

ah hahahaha.

 

[Mikey]

Black people are America's only matriarchy.

We are the only group with more boys up for adoption than girls..
We are the only group that leave our inheritance and businesses to our daughters instead of our sons.

Just look at the names of our boys..
Dontrelle instead of Don
Rontrelle instead of Ron
Marquise instead of Marcus.

Who else does that????

The only thing African we were allowed to keep is the Matriarchy..everything else was banned.

Why do you think BM WW couples are slammed while BW WM couples are praised?

The reason whites...latinos...arabs...asians...ect ect are male dominant is because the FEMALES have a BOY child preference.

BW have a girl child preference..making us a matriarchy.

Ironically

Men have nothing to do with it.

I understand you, and I see what you're getting at. It's a sense of overpowering, like BW are trying to take over against us or something. Would it be right for me to say that this is a form of "feminizing" the black male or a new kind of black feminism from black women directed against black men?

Bad comparison.
Asians are a male dominated race.

We are matriarchal.

Asians women are shunned and outcasted for doing half of what BW get away with on the daily.

Asians don't accept anything that comes out of an Asian woman's womb.

Throw something over the Asians side of the fence...he'll throw it back.
Throw something over the BM's side of the fence...he'll keep it.

Understood.

btw, no this isn't the reason why I visit this site, nor do I think problems with black women are the reason this site exists.

Black women are the reason lots of black men initially discover that white women can be an alternative, but beyond that, bmww relationships are a scene unto it's own having nothing to do with bw.

It's not like bw/wm relationships. From what I can discern there are always 3 people in those relationships: her, him, and "the black man". :mrgreen:

Bm/ww relationships are not "vengeance" relationships or "coup" relationships. they have their own quirks, there seems to be a strong sexual theme that runs through it, but they aren't based on hate, vengeance, status, "social climbing", etc.

personally, I'm open to all kinds of women (though I'm extremely skeptical of some kinds of chicks, such as black american women) - so maybe I'm not the best person to comment on the nature of wwbm relationships.

But all my experience and insight tells me that wwbm relations are less based on negative shit than other interracial dating trends

Ok, good to hear. My biggest gripe with it is that there's information and stats that explain that the current state of race relations has taken a turn since 2010 for blacks (after Obama passed his health care reform) and 2011 for whites (after the riots in England). Pretty much, the state of race relations in the US has either surpassed (or is the same) where it was back in October of 1995.

However, from looking at the line graph, we could see that from November 1996 to July 2005 was a good time for race relations.

http://www.psmag.com/culture/how-th...rt-race-relations-in-the-united-states-63435/

The change was predictable given the obsessive media coverage of the case and the dominant reactions to it. On one side, the story was that white people were shooting innocent black people and getting away with it. The opposing story was that even harmless looking blacks might unleash potentially fatal assaults on whites who are merely trying to protect their communities. In both versions, members of one race are out to kill members of the other—not a happy picture of relations between the races.

This is what keeps the social distance high between blacks and whites and why specifically we keep seeing them at odds with each other. It's hard to really think about getting into a relationship with a white female when there's a feeling around in the country that there's a social anxiety or emotional struggle going on between the two races.

Edit: 1995 was also when OJ Simpson's trial took place. That's probably the reason why race relations worsened then.

 

[andreboba]

You swear by these race related stats too much.
IRL, the dividing line between groups is education and income. Race comes in a distant third.

Race relations in this country have steadily improved over the last 30 years.
Even a decade ago, I think it would have been impossible for Obama to get elected.

In fact it took the perfect storm of the worst Republican president in recent memory, two foreign wars that everyone hated and a failing economy that allowed many voters to take a leap of faith with the Black guy.
Not like he could make things worse.

Watch how people's attitudes about the Affordable Care Act changes once it's implemented and people realize they were lied to by the GOP.

Instead of making amendments to the law and improving it, the GOP wasted all this time on a fool's quest to get the POTUS to repeal the signature accomplishment of his administration.lol

Anyway, race relations are about as good IMO as their going to get.
White people who've had positive experiences with Black folk are going to be willing to be more accepting and tolerant. Those who only know Black people as a theoretical concept are more likely to harbor negative prejudices.

Same goes for Black people and their views on Whites.
This is still the most diverse, multicultural country in the world.
People can say what they will, but I'd still rather be a BM in the U.S. than anywhere else.


Single incidents like the George Zimmerman trial or the O.J. verdict aren't big enough events in the lives of most people to significantly alter race relations in this country, when you realize most people are reluctant to openly talk about race issues in public anyway.

The election of Barack Obama has been the single most significant event in modern race relations since the March on Washington in 1963.

 

[The Dark King]

You swear by these race related stats too much.
IRL, the dividing line between groups is education and income. Race comes in a distant third.

Race relations in this country have steadily improved over the last 30 years.
Even a decade ago, I think it would have been impossible for Obama to get elected.

In fact it took the perfect storm of the worst Republican president in recent memory, two foreign wars that everyone hated and a failing economy that allowed many voters to take a leap of faith with the Black guy.
Not like he could make things worse.

Watch how people's attitudes about the Affordable Care Act changes once it's implemented and people realize they were lied to by the GOP.

Instead of making amendments to the law and improving it, the GOP wasted all this time on a fool's quest to get the POTUS to repeal the signature accomplishment of his administration.lol

Anyway, race relations are about as good IMO as their going to get.
White people who've had positive experiences with Black folk are going to be willing to be more accepting and tolerant. Those who only know Black people as a theoretical concept are more likely to harbor negative prejudices.

Same goes for Black people and their views on Whites.
This is still the most diverse, multicultural country in the world.
People can say what they will, but I'd still rather be a BM in the U.S. than anywhere else.


Single incidents like the George Zimmerman trial or the O.J. verdict aren't big enough events in the lives of most people to significantly alter race relations in this country, when you realize most people are reluctant to openly talk about race issues in public anyway.

The election of Barack Obama has been the single most significant event in modern race relations since the March on Washington in 1963.

Visit Canada and tell me again how great it is to be a bm in the US chief.

 

[andreboba]

Visit Canada and tell me again how great it is to be a bm in the US chief.

What percentage of Canada's population are Black??
How many Blacks hold public office in Canada?? How many run corporations or are TV newsanchors??

Being friendly to Black tourists is hardly being vested in a country.

Canada may not have the slave history of the U.S., but you'd be hard pressed to find Blacks there say there still isn't racial prejudice or bigotry.

 

[flaminghetero]

You swear by these race related stats too much.
IRL, the dividing line between groups is education and income. Race comes in a distant third.

Race relations in this country have steadily improved over the last 30 years.
Even a decade ago, I think it would have been impossible for Obama to get elected.

In fact it took the perfect storm of the worst Republican president in recent memory, two foreign wars that everyone hated and a failing economy that allowed many voters to take a leap of faith with the Black guy.
Not like he could make things worse.

Watch how people's attitudes about the Affordable Care Act changes once it's implemented and people realize they were lied to by the GOP.

Instead of making amendments to the law and improving it, the GOP wasted all this time on a fool's quest to get the POTUS to repeal the signature accomplishment of his administration.lol

Anyway, race relations are about as good IMO as their going to get.
White people who've had positive experiences with Black folk are going to be willing to be more accepting and tolerant. Those who only know Black people as a theoretical concept are more likely to harbor negative prejudices.

Same goes for Black people and their views on Whites.
This is still the most diverse, multicultural country in the world.
People can say what they will, but I'd still rather be a BM in the U.S. than anywhere else.


Single incidents like the George Zimmerman trial or the O.J. verdict aren't big enough events in the lives of most people to significantly alter race relations in this country, when you realize most people are reluctant to openly talk about race issues in public anyway.

The election of Barack Obama has been the single most significant event in modern race relations since the March on Washington in 1963.

zoloft is a mofo...

This guy must live in Disneyworld.

The election of a Wall Street owned shit-eating politician that happens to be half black is a piss poor barometer for race relations in this broke,raggedy ass country.

Race relations are at an all time low...not only between Blacks and Whites.....there are NEW HATERS on the scene...."persons of color" that have arrived via the destructive immigration act of 1965....and for some reason enter the country with the notion that Black people are the problem and they're here to fix it.

There is a new cracker on the seen....a wheat cracker....the klan with a tan.

 

[The Dark King]

What percentage of Canada's population are Black??
How many Blacks hold public office in Canada?? How many run corporations or are TV newsanchors??

Being friendly to Black tourists is hardly being vested in a country.

Canada may not have the slave history of the U.S., but you'd be hard pressed to find Blacks there say there still isn't racial prejudice or bigotry.

I've spent many summers in Canada and have family there and I'm telling you race relations are far better there for blacks than it ever will be here. Every where has racial prejudice but they have far less. Spend two weeks there speak to people from there and they will tell you the same-sex. Citizens and cops don't kill innocent black people while citizens cheer like they do here. I would forgo possible business and political aspirations if it meant better healthcare,education,and a government that gives a fuck about their people

 

[orejon4]

Black people are America's only matriarchy.

We are the only group with more boys up for adoption than girls..
We are the only group that leave our inheritance and businesses to our daughters instead of our sons.

Just look at the names of our boys..
Dontrelle instead of Don
Rontrelle instead of Ron
Marquise instead of Marcus.

Who else does that????

I think those names have nothing to do with feminizing boys or wishing for daughters and everything to do with the lack of continuous culture and identity, that we are trying to re-establish with names. How many times have you heard one of those non-existent faux-African, pseudo-Francophone sounding names on both boys and girls? In my case, more than I can count. And the Marquise thing is an English bastardization of the French nobility's male title 'Marquis', not 'Marcus', just like people used to name their children Duke, King, Queen, Princess, Prince, etc. Fuquan, D'Antavius, etc...

 

[flaminghetero]

I think those names have nothing to do with feminizing boys or wishing for daughters and everything to do with the lack of continuous culture and identity, that we are trying to re-establish with names. How many times have you heard one of those non-existent faux-African, pseudo-Francophone sounding names on both boys and girls? In my case, more than I can count. And the Marquise thing is an English bastardization of the French nobility's male title 'Marquis', not 'Marcus', just like people used to name their children Duke, King, Queen, Princess, Prince, etc. Fuquan, D'Antavius, etc...

You're outta' your league on this one fam.
Marquise is a sodomized version of Marcus...it ain't got shit to do with french nobility.The fools naming thier boys Marquise can't spell french nobility.

Cultures across america are in trouble....I don't see Native Americans(or anybody else) giving their sons girl sounding names.

Black America is in the grips of an unaccountable and out of control MATRIARCHY.

 

[Ches]

You're outta' your league on this one fam.
Marquise is a sodomized version of Marcus...it ain't got shit to do with french nobility.The fools naming thier boys Marquise can't spell french nobility.

Cultures across america are in trouble....I don't see Native Americans(or anybody else) giving their sons girl sounding names.

Black America is in the grips of an unaccountable and out of control MATRIARCHY.

Maybe this is a newer thing? Men I've met my age have regular old names like Charles, Robert, Daniel, David, Wayne, William, etc. Only one guy I've dated had a name that wasn't of the garden variety, but it wasn't feminine sounding either.