Tyler Perry should be credited with the resurgence of Black cinema in this era

[The Dark King]

he is a comedy writer for crying out loud that has an audience constantly begging for more...how do you argue with box office sales?

Like I said earlier I'm not arguing with his success but saying he's responsible for Black cinema in the current era then we have a real problem. I'm not one of those people who applaud black faces on the screen no matter what the role. It's the reason I won't watch bs like The Butler or 12 Years a Slave and why I regret watching The Help. Movies depicting us on our hands and knees for damn near 70% of a film is not a win to me

 

[The Dark King]

[YOUTUBE]hJtYVpLAZmI[/YOUTUBE]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. Great vid

 

[flaminghetero]

no he didn't read it...you posted at 7:32am and he responded at 7:34am...flaming has an agenda here on the forum

he can't be happy or proud of a gay black man...are you kidding? black men aren't supposed to support black women...after all black women gave them life but that doesn't mean they have to respect them:smt012

fan or not of tyler perry he has made a significant contribution to the black community

Stay in your lane dummy.

 

[flaminghetero]

Which must be zero and none.



In a free country we are allowed to judge anything. And saying "his work may not weigh heavily on the scale of aesthetic achievement" is kinda like saying Chris Christie is a bit overweight. You are playing down how pedestrian his work actually is IMO. John Singleton, a better filmmaker, fits that lack of aesthetic achievement description. Perry's work on the other hand has all the sophistication of a home video of a high school freshman. Is he successful? Oh, yes. So is Miley Cyrus and Justin Beiber. That doesn't necessarily equate quality. Instead it suggests he is serving a populace of low expectations. He is serving a group of moviegoers who every year whine that films like Love and Basketball, Jumping the Broom, Redtails and For Colored Girls did not garner Academy awards nominations.

They say when America has a cold black people have the flu. Well in that same vein if most America cinema speaks down to its audience by dumbing down its product, black cinema by folks like Perry takes ignorance to a whole other level. If black folks are happy with that shit so be it. I don't begrudge anyone for enjoying what they enjoy. But let us not forget that black people are also into a lot of things these days that aren't necessarily enriching the culture. Many of those same things people on these forums make fun of and dismiss. But Perry is supposed to be off limits?



No, it counts as headway in the profitability of black product. Let us not get commerce mixed up with actual art.

 

[flaminghetero]

[youtube]hJtYVpLAZmI[/youtube]

That's tyler perry's formula right down to a tee.

It's a sick people that see him as entertainment..A matriarchal people.

Imagine a palenstinian filmaker with a habit of making arab men look bad.

I wonder how long he'd live...lol

Arab women sure as hell wouldn't support him much less make him a billionaire.

 

[Gorath]

Because neither Martin or Eddie have built their careers on that exploitative bs. They both have had good strong films that didn't need racially damaging stereotypes to make it.

And as far black filmmakers who made it without building their career on colorism

Ernest Dickerson who is know for Juice
F Gary Gay know for Friday and the Italian Job
Steve McQueen
Kasi Lemmons who has Nativity out right now and also did Eve's Bayou

Just to name a few

Kasi Lemmons was also in the film Gridlock'd. One of Tupac Shakur's last films. It was directed by her husband Vondie Curtis Hall. I had seen him act in a lot of films like Clear And Present Danger and Die Hard 2: Die Harder as the black soldier who gets a Glock pressed against his forhead. Going way back, there was William Crane who directed Blacula. Cliff Roquemore who directed a few of the Rudy Ray Moore films. Kevin Hooks. Jimmy Bond who directed a low-budget horror film called Def By Temptation. And Gordon Parks.

 

[hellified]

Because neither Martin or Eddie have built their careers on that exploitative bs. They both have had good strong films that didn't need racially damaging stereotypes to make it.

And as far black filmmakers who made it without building their career on colorism

Ernest Dickerson who is know for Juice
F Gary Gay know for Friday and the Italian Job
Steve McQueen
Kasi Lemmons who has Nativity out right now and also did Eve's Bayou

Just to name a few

and theres the problem. you and many of us are still playing into this game of what one black person does reflects on all of us. Hattie McDaniels said in her oscar acceptance speech "I sincerely hope I shall always be a credit to my race and to the motion picture industry." And some 70 years later we're STILL operating in this mindset. You will never hear a white person say anything like "racially damaging stereotypes" in reference to themselves because they don't play into that bullshit. Thats some okeydoke bullshit played on minorities that we keep perpetuating.

And Martin and Eddie did build their careers on that bs.. nostalgia may rewrite history for you but martins mama payne IS madea (profane, bad attitude, religious, violent) Jerome IS that ghetto thug (in and out of jail, hustler) His girlfriend was lightskin while he made fun of the dark skin chick (who couldn't keep a man, had attitude) particularly the texture of her hair by constantly referring to her as beady bead a reference to the nappiness of her hair.

And Eddie murphy's reinvention as a family friendly comedic figure in the latter part of his career plays into the man in drag/stereotypes as well or did we forget Norbit and the mama and grandma characters of the Nutty professor??

That shit is more prevalent than you would think but people would rather cherrypick what they don't like and give a pass to the rest.

 

[lippy]

and theres the problem. you and many of us are still playing into this game of what one black person does reflects on all of us. Hattie McDaniels said in her oscar acceptance speech "I sincerely hope I shall always be a credit to my race and to the motion picture industry." And some 70 years later we're STILL operating in this mindset. You will never hear a white person say anything like "racially damaging stereotypes" in reference to themselves because they don't play into that bullshit. Thats some okeydoke bullshit played on minorities that we keep perpetuating.
And Martin and Eddie did build their careers on that bs.. nostalgia may rewrite history for you but martins mama payne IS madea (profane, bad attitude, religious, violent) Jerome IS that ghetto thug (in and out of jail, hustler) His girlfriend was lightskin while he made fun of the dark skin chick (who couldn't keep a man, had attitude) particularly the texture of her hair by constantly referring to her as beady bead a reference to the nappiness of her hair.

And Eddie murphy's reinvention as a family friendly comedic figure in the latter part of his career plays into the man in drag/stereotypes as well or did we forget Norbit and the mama and grandma characters of the Nutty professor??

That shit is more prevalent than you would think but people would rather cherrypick what they don't like and give a pass to the rest.

repped...especially the bolded part

 

[The Dark King]

and theres the problem. you and many of us are still playing into this game of what one black person does reflects on all of us. Hattie McDaniels said in her oscar acceptance speech "I sincerely hope I shall always be a credit to my race and to the motion picture industry." And some 70 years later we're STILL operating in this mindset. You will never hear a white person say anything like "racially damaging stereotypes" in reference to themselves because they don't play into that bullshit. Thats some okeydoke bullshit played on minorities that we keep perpetuating.

And Martin and Eddie did build their careers on that bs.. nostalgia may rewrite history for you but martins mama payne IS madea (profane, bad attitude, religious, violent) Jerome IS that ghetto thug (in and out of jail, hustler) His girlfriend was lightskin while he made fun of the dark skin chick (who couldn't keep a man, had attitude) particularly the texture of her hair by constantly referring to her as beady bead a reference to the nappiness of her hair.

And Eddie murphy's reinvention as a family friendly comedic figure in the latter part of his career plays into the man in drag/stereotypes as well or did we forget Norbit and the mama and grandma characters of the Nutty professor??

That shit is more prevalent than you would think but people would rather cherrypick what they don't like and give a pass to the rest.

White people don't play into the stereotype game because they have limitless personas as examples of them on screen. I constantly wonder with all the Lord of Rings, Percy Jackson esque movies out there why hasn't someone developed one about Egypt or Kush. There are incredibly rich stories that could have black leads but you never see them, instead we're left with either bafoonery or movies where we have to be reminded that we were once treated like dog shit.
And you better believe if you want to credit someone with the resurgence of blacks in film that how he depicts and what it means to black people will be critiqued
As far as Martin is concerned he may have played many characters that depicted stereotypes but it wasn't the whole show and like I said his commercial success wasn't based on it. Dude did two huge blockbuster movies by doing the Bad Boys movies. He also did a bunch of other comedies that didn't require him to wear a damn dress. Can you say the same of Perry?
Eddie Murphy may have done that Klump bs but its not what his career was based on in fact I'd wager the majority of his money came from being that talking donkey in Shrek. He's also done serious roles like he in did in Sparkle where dude actually acted his ass off.
Can Perry say the same?
The dude's career is based on being an cross dresser who uses colorism to rope in insecure women.
That Boondocks clip said it all.
And by the way Martin constantly made fun of his light skin gf for having a big ass head, its not like he revered and just clowned Pam

 

[The Dark King]

repped...especially the bolded part

 

[lippy]

tyler perry making movies that you feel do not put black men in the best light is no different than all the black men you worship turning out derogatory lyrics in their rap music...you still buy the CDs...download the music...

 

[The Dark King]

tyler perry making movies that you feel do not put black men in the best light is no different than all the black men you worship turning out derogatory lyrics in their rap music...you still buy the CDs...download the music...

No I actually don't, all that music is listened to for free on pandora and youtube if I do listen to it.
And like I said if you are going to have the mantle of being responsible for blacks being in media again then a critique of how you're doing it will follow.

 

[hellified]

White people don't play into the stereotype game because they have limitless personas as examples of them on screen. I constantly wonder with all the Lord of Rings, Percy Jackson esque movies out there why hasn't someone developed one about Egypt or Kush. There are incredibly rich stories that could have black leads but you never see them, instead we're left with either bafoonery or movies where we have to be reminded that we were once treated like dog shit.

I would love to see those kinds of films as well but the business reality is

1. Genres other than comedies tend to cost more to produce the higher the cost the more revenue required to make a profit the higher the profit the more you have to expand the audience. Also NOT EVERY black person LIKES action, thriller or scifi etc which means if youre going to do those genres you HAVE to get an audience outside of core black which brings us to....

2. NONBLACK PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO SEE TOO MANY BLACKS ON THE SCREEN. Okay not ALL nonblacks but enough to make a difference. Which is why you see a big drop and struggle with black cast films that aren't comedies.

Hell if Tyler Perry raises his budget to high you see a drop in the profit margin

so its possible to max out the black audience even tho their loyal.

And you better believe if you want to credit someone with the resurgence of blacks in film that how he depicts and what it means to black people will be critiqued

thats fine but don't like Perry is setting black people back.

As far as Martin is concerned he may have played many characters that depicted stereotypes but it wasn't the whole show and like I said his commercial success wasn't based on it. Dude did two huge blockbuster movies by doing the Bad Boys movies. He also did a bunch of other comedies that didn't require him to wear a damn dress. Can you say the same of Perry?

1. Martin is not that great an actor..he essentially plays himself in pretty much every role. I like martin but I don't expect a denzel like performance from him..he is what he is and I accept that..why can't people do that with tyler perry?

2. Martins biggest money makers outside of bad boys is big momma..thats why they made 3 of them.

Eddie Murphy may have done that Klump bs but its not what his career was based on in fact I'd wager the majority of his money came from being that talking donkey in Shrek. He's also done serious roles like he in did in Sparkle where dude actually acted his ass off.
Can Perry say the same?
The dude's career is based on being an cross dresser who uses colorism to rope in insecure women.
That Boondocks clip said it all.
And by the way Martin constantly made fun of his light skin gf for having a big ass head, its not like he revered and just clowned Pam

eddie's career has two phases so far..the brash young profane comedian/action star that lasted up till the early 90s then he reinvented himself in a more family friendly way in the mid 90s and while having a cgi franchise is great you can't dismiss nutty professor an norbit either.
this is what I mean by cherrypicking if you have a problem with crossdressing then its crossdressing across the board not pick on one but give a pass to the other..

The fact that Martin chose to have a lightskin girlfriend on the show rather than a darkskin woman speaks volumes about colorism at least as much as anything TP has done.

And perry has played roles other than madea as well.

I get that and agree that TP films and shows aren't the best any criticism on that is valid...what I DON'T agree with is suggesting that it sets black people as group back. We need to stop that bullshit.

 

[The Dark King]

I would love to see those kinds of films as well but the business reality is

1. Genres other than comedies tend to cost more to produce the higher the cost the more revenue required to make a profit the higher the profit the more you have to expand the audience. Also NOT EVERY black person LIKES action, thriller or scifi etc which means if youre going to do those genres you HAVE to get an audience outside of core black which brings us to....

2. NONBLACK PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO SEE TOO MANY BLACKS ON THE SCREEN. Okay not ALL nonblacks but enough to make a difference. Which is why you see a big drop and struggle with black cast films that aren't comedies.

Hell if Tyler Perry raises his budget to high you see a drop in the profit margin

so its possible to max out the black audience even tho their loyal.


thats fine but don't like Perry is setting black people back.


1. Martin is not that great an actor..he essentially plays himself in pretty much every role. I like martin but I don't expect a denzel like performance from him..he is what he is and I accept that..why can't people do that with tyler perry?

2. Martins biggest money makers outside of bad boys is big momma..thats why they made 3 of them.



eddie's career has two phases so far..the brash young profane comedian/action star that lasted up till the early 90s then he reinvented himself in a more family friendly way in the mid 90s and while having a cgi franchise is great you can't dismiss nutty professor an norbit either.
this is what I mean by cherrypicking if you have a problem with crossdressing then its crossdressing across the board not pick on one but give a pass to the other..

The fact that Martin chose to have a lightskin girlfriend on the show rather than a darkskin woman speaks volumes about colorism at least as much as anything TP has done.

And perry has played roles other than madea as well.

I get that and agree that TP films and shows aren't the best any criticism on that is valid...what I DON'T agree with is suggesting that it sets black people as group back. We need to stop that bullshit.

I would agree if that were the case for Martin across the board but when him his light skin woman broke up he ended up with a brown skin woman (Lisa from saved the bell who he was dating in real life) I actually think her and Pam were the same complexion. In contrast Perry in nearly all of his movies perpetuates that light skin is better garbage in his movies.
Also I never said he sets us back he just reinforces a lot of bs. If this is what passes for resurgence then we really need to re-examine what we consider success to be. He may be making money but it doesn't matter if he can't put out some quality from time to time.

Btw Norbit was a damn flop fam lol

 

[hellified]

I would agree if that were the case for Martin across the board but when him his light skin woman broke up he ended up with a brown skin woman (Lisa from saved the bell who he was dating in real life) I actually think her and Pam were the same complexion. In contrast Perry in nearly all of his movies perpetuates that light skin is better garbage in his movies.
Also I never said he sets us back he just reinforces a lot of bs. If this is what passes for resurgence then we really need to re-examine what we consider success to be. He may be making money but it doesn't matter if he can't put out some quality from time to time.

Btw Norbit was a damn flop fam lol

numbers don't lie homie...

Norbit - Production Budget: $60 million

Domestic: $95,673,607
Foreign: $63,639,954
Worldwide: $159,313,561

and to say it TPs work reinforces bs is pretty much the same thing..

I haven't seen all of perry's films but I have seen a few and they don't all follow the same steps. nor does his tv shows.. thats what his detractors keep saying but the fucked up part about that is his detractors DON'T WATCH HIS SHIT they look at maybe one or two flicks or a couple of episodes and fill in the rest with assumptions.

As far as Martin is concerned we can get into things that are very similar between martin and any perry tv show..VERY SIMILAR but at the end of the day perry critics refuse to see those similarities or write them off.

 

[Loki]

Per below, I agree with Spike's criticism. Black people (Black men in particular) above all others have had to deal with a history of negative portrayals that still persists to this day. Such portrayals do have an impact on society, reinforcing stereotypes. Even if we had multiple media outlets that showed nothing but 100% positive, uplifting examples of Black excellence for the next 100 years, there would still be work to do to bury the negative stereotypes. Other ethnicities (with the possible exception of Native Americans) don't have the same level of negativity in their historic portrayals. That being said, it is good to see a dialogue between the two per below.

"My criticism of him was just the imagery," Lee says. "To me, it was just taste. He has a way to see stuff, I see it different. We're cool. We got no drama, no friction, and one day we might work together."

 

[hellified]

Also to the charges of perry plays the same old same old..

a dectective

a rich man

a doctor

I'm assuming you all have no problem with these roles right??:roll:

 

[lippy]

No I actually don't, all that music is listened to for free on pandora and youtube if I do listen to it.
And like I said if you are going to have the mantle of being responsible for blacks being in media again then a critique of how you're doing it will follow.

were you or were you not the one defending jay Z rise to fame by selling drugs?

tyler perry came from nothing and didn't sell drugs to get where he is...just saying

 

[hellified]

Per below, I agree with Spike's criticism. Black people (Black men in particular) above all others have had to deal with a history of negative portrayals that still persists to this day. Such portrayals do have an impact on society, reinforcing stereotypes. Even if we had multiple media outlets that showed nothing but 100% positive, uplifting examples of Black excellence for the next 100 years, there would still be work to do to bury the negative stereotypes. Other ethnicities (with the possible exception of Native Americans) don't have the same level of negativity in their historic portrayals. That being said, it is good to see a dialogue between the two per below.

"My criticism of him was just the imagery," Lee says. "To me, it was just taste. He has a way to see stuff, I see it different. We're cool. We got no drama, no friction, and one day we might work together."

the bold statement..if that happened for 100 YEARS and we still feel the need to bury negative shit then that says more about how we feel about ourselves than how others perceive us.

This perfectly encapsulates what the perry critics think of themselves and blacks as group.

 

[The Dark King]

were you or were you not the one defending jay Z rise to fame by selling drugs?

tyler perry came from nothing and didn't sell drugs to get where he is...just saying

Are you sure that was me?