Tyler Perry should be credited with the resurgence of Black cinema in this era

[Mighty Quinn]

[YOUTUBE]hJtYVpLAZmI[/YOUTUBE]

lulz

Remember their R. Kelly episode from their first season when they asked 'why does every black person on television have to be role model?'

I'm not a rabid anti-Tyler Perry cat, but shows like Meet the Browns just lack imagination to me, and yes it can be pernicious.

 

[hellified]

lulz

Remember their R. Kelly episode from their first season when they asked 'why does every black person on television have to be role model?'

I'm not a rabid anti-Tyler Perry cat, but shows like Meet the Browns just lack imagination to me, and yes it can be pernicious.

in what way can it be pernicious??

have you actually watched the show for more than one episode?

 

[Loki]

the bold statement..if that happened for 100 YEARS and we still feel the need to bury negative shit then that says more about how we feel about ourselves than how others perceive us.

This perfectly encapsulates what the perry critics think of themselves and blacks as group.

Looks like we must agree to disagree again, negative portrayals do in fact reinforce negative stereotypes that can become real world obstacles, nothing to do with how one regards themselves or other Black people. Very straightforward concept, yet you keep wanting to make it personal. You have commented on this topic in numerous threads, you feel Perry has merit as a filmaker, many others here do not, simple as that.

 

[hellified]

Looks like we must agree to disagree again, negative portrayals do in fact reinforce negative stereotypes that can become real world obstacles, nothing to do with how one regards themselves or other Black people. Very straightforward concept, yet you keep wanting to make it personal. You have commented on this topic in numerous threads, you feel Perry has merit as a filmaker, many others here do not, simple as that.

do you think all asians know martial arts or are math geniuses?

do think all jews are shrewd money grubbing complainers?

do you think all jamiacans are ganja smoking beach combers?

the negative perceptions don't precede the hatred and belief its a by product of that hatred and belief..

a nonblack person can see nothing but positive images of black people and still hate our fucking guts and think we're not human to them..it doesn't matter what the imagery is. Thats why its insanity to buy into it cause thats gonna do is keep us jumping from one foot to the other trying to please someone who will keep moving the goalposts because guess what..THEY HATE YOU..regardless of the whatever image they see of you.

Do you realize that there are more positive characters by far (doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs and generally hard working people) in all of perry's works yet the detractors skip over all of those character and point out the ONE extreme character and make a huge case of it.

 

[JamalSpunky]

you're criticisms of his works on a technical and creative level are valid but to put forth the notion that his films are a detriment to the culture is just bullshit. As you put it very well there are other black filmmakers who's works are very compelling by comparison but thats the problem..why should there be a comparison. Perry has his lane and Mcqueen has his.

Fair enough. I do think they are a detriment but as I wrote earlier I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys that stuff and pays money to see it. Just as I don't begrudge anyone who poisons themselves by going to Burger King every other day for a meal. It's a free fucking country.

The article never says that Tyler Perry is a creative genius but even you have to admit that he's had some influence on how to make and market low budget productions in a much more efficient way than previously done in the last decade.

I already pointed out that he has made a name for himself by providing an example of how to make movies quickly, assembly-line style. But I won't go as far to call it efficient. McQueen making a period slave film for 16 million over the period of four to six weeks is efficient. Perry on the other hand does thing on the cheap not because he can't afford it but because his greed overrides any artistic vision that he has.

And commerce means something

Context. It doesn't mean anything in the discussion we were having in this thread up to that point about the quality of work

..it means power and independence. Which is what may be tyler perry's greatest achievement. From the looks of it it seems he's working on creating an expansive studio in Atlanta. And he's starting to branch off and give other filmmakers the opportunity to create under his banner (Peeples for example).

Between Tyler and Oprah, if they can pull this off they are literally setting up a self contained, independent production STUDIO..not COMPANY..STUDIO the difference between a company and studio is a company just does the paperwork but the actual making of the product is farmed out other facilities that have the equipment to make it. A studio has its OWN equipment and means to make the product. Lights, cameras, stages etc from preproduction to post and damn near everything in between.

Yes. Nice dream. Here's the problem. At Paramount Studios there are a wide range of different movies being made because the people running the show don't have any agendas other than making money and perhaps winning an Oscar or two. Certainly O and Perry love to make money and certainly they would love to win some Academy awards. But they would also force upon their unique vision of what films to pursue. For Oprah that mostly means movies about the triumphant spirit of women, especially black women. For Perry it will be mostly films that cater to black women and the black church. That leaves not much room for other types of films. It certainly means as black men we would be stuck watching a lot of chick flicks. Sorry but I just can't get excited about a bunch of movies with black girls getting molested by their fathers, uncles and brothers or flicks about the good, dependable, strong black woman finding the Lord after being abandoned by her no good black husband. Frankly I find it terrifying the idea that one or two people would have that much control over what type of black films are to be made. And did I mention that these two have such large egos that they love to brand the films, books and Broadway shows they come across with their own names? I can't name any of the big wigs at Paramount or Disney or Universal or 20th Century Fox because they are executives who stay out of the spotlight and allow the producers to do the heavy lifting of acquiring rights to screenplays and getting films made. Oprah and Perry on the other hand are both media whores who want to make everything about them. And what's spooky is that black people already line up like sheep and fall in line when it comes to all things Oprah and Tyler.

Also when you get a chance go do some research on how badly Perry treats his writers, producers, actors, etc. He has butted heads against the WGA because he was paying writers below the floor rate as established by industry contracts and agreement. He thought he could get away with it because apparently he thinks he lords over the black people who work behind the scenes. To challenge him can lead to some petty payback and threats. You know those stories of immigrants who come to America and have to pay for so-called protection by the biggest thugs in their community because they are somewhat invisible to mainstream society. Well, that's kinda like how it is for young black writers trying to make a name for themselves in film and television whenever they have to work in the Perry studio. No one wants to cross him.

see the difference... Now if heads would stop complaining and bitching they would see that the man is doing something thats literally unprecedented in not just Black history but AMERICAN history being the first Black man not to run a studio but to OWN a studio. Thats why Spike made up with him and all of his other critics and shit talkers should be trying to work WITH him rather than complain about how bad his films are.

Nonsense. While I'm happy to see that a black man can accomplish what Perry has, I don't lose my perspective and get happy about him being the one behind the wheel. If there was a guy who became the first black man to own and run a car corporation but the cars were goddamn deathtraps or at least unreliable means of transportation, should I be throwing a party because he was making money off a crappy product? Hell, no. Maybe you are different. If so congratulations.

And to be fair to Spike Lee, who himself is often nothing more than a petty dumbass, he was having issues with Perry's work before Perry's empire got that big. Not everything comes down to jealousy. And, no, I don't believe in the tired mythology that if black people put all of their eggs in one basket they would be able to produce quality goods for the black community. Lee's type of film doesn't fit Perry's agenda. Perry has had enough time and more than enough money to finance the work of black filmmakers who had artistic visions different than his. He hasn't done that. The closest thing he has done is putting his name (as producer) on the credit titles for Precious when his girlfriend Oprah took a liking to it.

You mentioned that white people have more options to see themselves than blacks but the reality is MOST of the images and representations of whites in cinema and tv are NOT good and stereotypical of them but they control the medium so all you get is the hype of the FEW by comparison good works they produce.

If you have to resort to some bs that most images of white people in TV and film aren't positive then you already lost the argument. No one with a brain would buy that. Scholars, black and otherwise, who have reported on the lack of positive images of peoples of color compared to the far more plentiful of positive images for white, would shut your weak theory down. You can do better.

 

[Loki]

do you think all asians know martial arts or are math geniuses?

do think all jews are shrewd money grubbing complainers?

do you think all jamiacans are ganja smoking beach combers?

the negative perceptions don't precede the hatred and belief its a by product of that hatred and belief..

a nonblack person can see nothing but positive images of black people and still hate our fucking guts and think we're not human to them..it doesn't matter what the imagery is. Thats why its insanity to buy into it cause thats gonna do is keep us jumping from one foot to the other trying to please someone who will keep moving the goalposts because guess what..THEY HATE YOU..regardless of the whatever image they see of you.

Do you realize that there are more positive characters by far (doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs and generally hard working people) in all of perry's works yet the detractors skip over all of those character and point out the ONE extreme character and make a huge case of it.

There are very good reasons why advertising firms are paid big bucks for marketing campaigns, imagery matters! It should be obvious that all racism will not be eradicated, that was never my point, but behavior for many can and would be modified, history shows us this time and time again. I for one don't tolerate/support ANY negative imagery, whether it's in rap, movies,TV, radio, ect. It's interesting you claim there are more positive than negative portrayals in his works, as Spike said many have a problem with the images Perry puts out there.

 

[Soulthinker]

Tyler Perry is a good filmmaker and actor. I just saw his newest flick and loved it. It kept me in stitches. Medea is hilarious as always. If its true that he and Spike Lee made up then there will be diversity for all kinds of Black cinema. To those Black criticson't bych, make it yourselves and let the best storyteller win.

 

[JamalSpunky]

Tyler Perry is a good filmmaker and actor. I just saw his newest flick and loved it. It kept me in stitches. Medea is hilarious as always. If its true that he and Spike Lee made up then there will be diversity for all kinds of Black cinema. To those Black criticson't bych, make it yourselves and let the best storyteller win.

Why stop there?

To all of those sofa coaches who are angry about the calls the coach of your fave NFL team made why don't you go out and coach the team yourself?

To all of those critics who think that freshmen basketball recruit is overrated please lace up your sneakers and prove that you are better.

To all the haters who thought the police unnecessarily roughed up a suspect perhaps you should give a try walking a beat yourself.

To all the critics who think certain politicians are corrupt and ineffective maybe you should run for office.


Hmm. You see how absurd it is when your counter to others' criticisms is simply to fall back on the tired, ol' rebuttal of do it yourself? You see how limited our ability would be to criticize anyone if that was the only way to make our points legitimate to the people we are having a debate with?

 

[The Dark King]

There are very good reasons why advertising firms are paid big bucks for marketing campaigns, imagery matters! It should be obvious that all racism will not be eradicated, that was never my point, but behavior for many can and would be modified, history shows us this time and time again. I for one don't tolerate/support ANY negative imagery, whether it's in rap, movies,TV, radio, ect. It's interesting you claim there are more positive than negative portrayals in his works, as Spike said many have a problem with the images Perry puts out there.

Saved me from saying this. Anyone who thinks negative propaganda doesn't matter doesn't pay attention at all.

 

[hellified]

Fair enough. I do think they are a detriment but as I wrote earlier I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys that stuff and pays money to see it. Just as I don't begrudge anyone who poisons themselves by going to Burger King every other day for a meal. It's a free fucking country.

you just seem offended by the fact that some people actually like burger king and that burger king is as popular as it is.

I already pointed out that he has made a name for himself by providing an example of how to make movies quickly, assembly-line style. But I won't go as far to call it efficient. McQueen making a period slave film for 16 million over the period of four to six weeks is efficient. Perry on the other hand does thing on the cheap not because he can't afford it but because his greed overrides any artistic vision that he has.

I dunno about that Perry's highest budgeted film was 40 million and it still made a profit.

Context. It doesn't mean anything in the discussion we were having in this thread up to that point about the quality of work

Well I don't dispute the quality of the work isn't very good but that mine and your OPINION isn't it. there are many people who enjoy his work and their opinion is just as valid.

Yes. Nice dream. Here's the problem. At Paramount Studios there are a wide range of different movies being made because the people running the show don't have any agendas other than making money and perhaps winning an Oscar or two. Certainly O and Perry love to make money and certainly they would love to win some Academy awards. But they would also force upon their unique vision of what films to pursue. For Oprah that mostly means movies about the triumphant spirit of women, especially black women. For Perry it will be mostly films that cater to black women and the black church. That leaves not much room for other types of films. It certainly means as black men we would be stuck watching a lot of chick flicks. Sorry but I just can't get excited about a bunch of movies with black girls getting molested by their fathers, uncles and brothers or flicks about the good, dependable, strong black woman finding the Lord after being abandoned by her no good black husband. Frankly I find it terrifying the idea that one or two people would have that much control over what type of black films are to be made. And did I mention that these two have such large egos that they love to brand the films, books and Broadway shows they come across with their own names? I can't name any of the big wigs at Paramount or Disney or Universal or 20th Century Fox because they are executives who stay out of the spotlight and allow the producers to do the heavy lifting of acquiring rights to screenplays and getting films made. Oprah and Perry on the other hand are both media whores who want to make everything about them. And what's spooky is that black people already line up like sheep and fall in line when it comes to all things Oprah and Tyler.

“I love Sci Fi, I love the ‘Alien’ movies and the ‘Alien’ franchise. I was very disappointed with ‘Prometheus’, but I love that whole franchise. Those are my favorite movies. I’m actually working on a sci-fi movie right now. [I can't say anything other than] I’m writing a sci-fi movie that I’m really excited about.”
we'll see if that happens.. As far as branding goes.. his name moves product so why shouldn't he use it...much like Disney sells and when Walt was alive he was very involved in the product. Same with Warner brothers during the old hollywood system. Tell you what if perry was doing stuff your LIKED you wouldn't mind his name on it or him being involved in it so thats just nitpicking.

Also when you get a chance go do some research on how badly Perry treats his writers, producers, actors, etc. He has butted heads against the WGA because he was paying writers below the floor rate as established by industry contracts and agreement. He thought he could get away with it because apparently he thinks he lords over the black people who work behind the scenes. To challenge him can lead to some petty payback and threats. You know those stories of immigrants who come to America and have to pay for so-called protection by the biggest thugs in their community because they are somewhat invisible to mainstream society. Well, that's kinda like how it is for young black writers trying to make a name for themselves in film and television whenever they have to work in the Perry studio. No one wants to cross him.

Thats not surprising..no one wants to cross anyone high up in hollywood and EVERYONE has a beef with management. Hell Berry Gordy rooked over many an artist at Motown in the 60s and that was the only high profile high selling black label at the time. Not saying its right just that it is what it is.

Nonsense. While I'm happy to see that a black man can accomplish what Perry has, I don't lose my perspective and get happy about him being the one behind the wheel. If there was a guy who became the first black man to own and run a car corporation but the cars were goddamn deathtraps or at least unreliable means of transportation, should I be throwing a party because he was making money off a crappy product? Hell, no. Maybe you are different. If so congratulations.

But the difference here is a clunky car is objective it either runs or it doesn't its either safe or its not.. a creative work like a movie or tv show is subjective. Something you hate maybe the same thing some else loves and you both saw the same things. There are millions of people who like, love or have no issue with Parry's work and those people also love Spike Lees work and Lee Daniels work and Steve Mcqueen's work its not an either/or issue for them so the notion that they are adversely affected by what he does is just plain silly and needs to stop.

And to be fair to Spike Lee, who himself is often nothing more than a petty dumbass, he was having issues with Perry's work before Perry's empire got that big. Not everything comes down to jealousy. And, no, I don't believe in the tired mythology that if black people put all of their eggs in one basket they would be able to produce quality goods for the black community. Lee's type of film doesn't fit Perry's agenda. Perry has had enough time and more than enough money to finance the work of black filmmakers who had artistic visions different than his. He hasn't done that. The closest thing he has done is putting his name (as producer) on the credit titles for Precious when his girlfriend Oprah took a liking to it.

I don't think its jealousy I think Spike's options are limited at this point. red Hook Summer flopped, they won't greenlight Inside Man 2 even tho its his best BO performing film by far. And Oldboy was DOA with little marketing and theater showings. IF theyre supposed friendship becomes something more it will be out of necessity for Spike if he can't get anything going with hollywood. It may behoove him to make nice with the guy who has a fuck-ton of camera's and soundstages.

If you have to resort to some bs that most images of white people in TV and film aren't positive then you already lost the argument. No one with a brain would buy that. Scholars, black and otherwise, who have reported on the lack of positive images of peoples of color compared to the far more plentiful of positive images for white, would shut your weak theory down. You can do better.

By sheer number sure only because theyre the biggest population but the most celebrate and exciting to watch?? Theyre aren't.. the most celebrated shows today have some pretty fucked up people in them. You tell me where are the positive characters are in Mad Men and Breaking Bad? How about Game of Thrones and Sons of Anarchy and Dexter? If your talking about occupation sure there alot of cops and doctors and lawyers but you show me a black show in the last ten years that didn't have those kinds of characters as well? Concerning Perry shows and films there are many professional employed characters on them. House of Payne is about a family where the patriarch is a fire chief, his sons firemen, the women work in administrative jobs. Meet the Browns the main family are doctors and teachers with the exception of brown himself who is a janitor. Yes brown is a clown but then he's SUPPOSED to be. Other than him no other character is that extreme.

So I'm looking at these shows and I see ONE or TWO character thats extreme and the rest are just regular workaday black folk and I'm thinking well this is predictable and marginally funny but wheres the horrible coonery/buffoonery people are crying about? Show me a non reality tv show on today where the black people aren't gainfully employed or have some positive traits or features?

There was the Wire where literally nearly all the black characters were fucked up in some real horrible way going so far to hire REAL former gangbangers and drug dealers and people LOVED that show.

 

[hellified]

There are very good reasons why advertising firms are paid big bucks for marketing campaigns, imagery matters! It should be obvious that all racism will not be eradicated, that was never my point, but behavior for many can and would be modified, history shows us this time and time again. I for one don't tolerate/support ANY negative imagery, whether it's in rap, movies,TV, radio, ect. It's interesting you claim there are more positive than negative portrayals in his works, as Spike said many have a problem with the images Perry puts out there.

that the charge it reinforces negative stereotypes but TO WHO? to black people? to non black people? Who exactly is being negatively influenced by this stuff?
if its non blacks then...

1. its a safe bet that anyone who believes what they see in a movie or tv show applies to real life is a moron.

2. they never liked you anyway

as for spike i'll copy paste my last response..

Concerning Perry shows and films there are many professional employed characters on them. House of Payne is about a family where the patriarch is a fire chief, his sons firemen, the women work in administrative jobs. Meet the Browns the main family are doctors and teachers with the exception of brown himself who is a janitor. Yes brown is a clown but then he's SUPPOSED to be. Other than him no other character is that extreme.

So I'm looking at these shows and I see ONE or TWO character thats extreme and the rest are just regular workaday black folk and I'm thinking well this is predictable and marginally funny but wheres the horrible coonery/buffoonery people are crying about? Show me a non reality tv show on today where the black people aren't gainfully employed or have some positive traits or features?

Is it because some of the people in the shows are heavy set dark skin black people doing physical comedy? is that it?

 

[The Dark King]

that the charge it reinforces negative stereotypes but TO WHO? to black people? to non black people? Who exactly is being negatively influenced by this stuff?
if its non blacks then...

1. its a safe bet that anyone who believes what they see in a movie or tv show applies to real life is a moron.

2. they never liked you anyway

as for spike i'll copy paste my last response..

Concerning Perry shows and films there are many professional employed characters on them. House of Payne is about a family where the patriarch is a fire chief, his sons firemen, the women work in administrative jobs. Meet the Browns the main family are doctors and teachers with the exception of brown himself who is a janitor. Yes brown is a clown but then he's SUPPOSED to be. Other than him no other character is that extreme.

So I'm looking at these shows and I see ONE or TWO character thats extreme and the rest are just regular workaday black folk and I'm thinking well this is predictable and marginally funny but wheres the horrible coonery/buffoonery people are crying about? Show me a non reality tv show on today where the black people aren't gainfully employed or have some positive traits or features?

Is it because some of the people in the shows are heavy set dark skin black people doing physical comedy? is that it?

You my friend are woefully ignorant on how propaganda works. Its not only a tool to make people hate you but it dehumanizes groups so that when shit happens to them it's dismissed ie Nazi Germany. The smear campaign against the Jews making them out to be gypsy rats helped make them disposable to the larger population. Same thing in this country with blacks and native Americans.
I'm not saying that it runs that deep with Perry but once again if you want to credit him with making black films relevant again then prepare to hear people ask in what context is this so called relevance.
Images matter, they may not matter to you but it really matters to a lot of people.

 

[The Dark King]

you just seem offended by the fact that some people actually like burger king and that burger king is as popular as it is.


I dunno about that Perry's highest budgeted film was 40 million and it still made a profit.


Well I don't dispute the quality of the work isn't very good but that mine and your OPINION isn't it. there are many people who enjoy his work and their opinion is just as valid.


“I love Sci Fi, I love the ‘Alien’ movies and the ‘Alien’ franchise. I was very disappointed with ‘Prometheus’, but I love that whole franchise. Those are my favorite movies. I’m actually working on a sci-fi movie right now. [I can't say anything other than] I’m writing a sci-fi movie that I’m really excited about.”
we'll see if that happens.. As far as branding goes.. his name moves product so why shouldn't he use it...much like Disney sells and when Walt was alive he was very involved in the product. Same with Warner brothers during the old hollywood system. Tell you what if perry was doing stuff your LIKED you wouldn't mind his name on it or him being involved in it so thats just nitpicking.


Thats not surprising..no one wants to cross anyone high up in hollywood and EVERYONE has a beef with management. Hell Berry Gordy rooked over many an artist at Motown in the 60s and that was the only high profile high selling black label at the time. Not saying its right just that it is what it is.





But the difference here is a clunky car is objective it either runs or it doesn't its either safe or its not.. a creative work like a movie or tv show is subjective. Something you hate maybe the same thing some else loves and you both saw the same things. There are millions of people who like, love or have no issue with Parry's work and those people also love Spike Lees work and Lee Daniels work and Steve Mcqueen's work its not an either/or issue for them so the notion that they are adversely affected by what he does is just plain silly and needs to stop.



I don't think its jealousy I think Spike's options are limited at this point. red Hook Summer flopped, they won't greenlight Inside Man 2 even tho its his best BO performing film by far. And Oldboy was DOA with little marketing and theater showings. IF theyre supposed friendship becomes something more it will be out of necessity for Spike if he can't he anything going with hollywood. It may behoove him to make nice with the guy who has a fuck-ton of camera's and soundstages.


By sheer number sure only because theyre the biggest population but the most celebrate and exciting to watch?? Theyre aren't.. the most celebrated shows today have some pretty fucked up people in them. You tell me where are the positive characters are in Mad Men and Breaking Bad? How about Game of Thrones and Sons of Anarchy and Dexter? If your talking about occupation sure there alot of cops and doctors and lawyers but you show me a black show in the last ten years that didn't have those kinds of characters as well? Concerning Perry shows and films there are many professional employed characters on them. House of Payne is about a family where the patriarch is a fire chief, his sons firemen, the women work in administrative jobs. Meet the Browns the main family are doctors and teachers with the exception of brown himself who is a janitor. Yes brown is a clown but then he's SUPPOSED to be. Other than him no other character is that extreme.

So I'm looking at these shows and I see ONE or TWO character thats extreme and the rest are just regular workaday black folk and I'm thinking well this is predictable and marginally funny but wheres the horrible coonery/buffoonery people are crying about? Show me a non reality tv show on today where the black people aren't gainfully employed or have some positive traits or features?

There was the Wire where literally nearly all the black characters were fucked up in some real horrible way going so far to hire REAL former gangbangers and drug dealers and people LOVED that show.

So you're saying there isn't a metric to determine what is good and bad art? That's false my friend.
People may buy a Britney Spears album but no one is calling that girl a talented singer, fun to sing along with? Perhaps, but a great singer she is not.
Same with rap, people may sing along to a Will Smith song but no one would call him a good rapper.
And to your point about how whites are depicted in media, I would say the difference between when a white person is "bad" in shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones they also paint such a sympathetic picture. Poor Walt only wanted to make money for his family he really wasn't a manipulative dick who used and killed people. Game of Thrones is full of evil fucks like Jamie Lanister but they paint many sympathetic moments to make over privileged assholes like him into some type of victims. Not to mention how other characters, all white, have some sense of nobility where as everyone darker is either a savage or betrayer and a thief.
The Wire while a great show paints a picture of black poverty in the inner city as nothing but tragedy. No happy endings or great moments for anyone.
Also painted as savages who just pop motherfuckas on the street for the slightest infraction, little kids with crack fein parents who run amuck causing violence where ever they go. I won't take away from the writing because it was absolutely amazing and the acting was superb but it does reinforce the negativity of black life. It also colors the way people see blacks in this country. If you don't think the decades of blacks being portrayed as bafoons and criminals doesn't color the mainstream at large then you need a wake up call my friend.

 

[hellified]

You my friend are woefully ignorant on how propaganda works. Its not only a tool to make people hate you but it dehumanizes groups so that when shit happens to them it's dismissed ie Nazi Germany. The smear campaign against the Jews making them out to be gypsy rats helped make them disposable to the larger population. Same thing in this country with blacks and native Americans.
I'm not saying that it runs that deep with Perry but once again if you want to credit him with making black films relevant again then prepare to hear people ask in what context is this so called relevance.
Images matter, they may not matter to you but it really matters to a lot of people.

your missing my point..if propaganda can make people flip that easily on you then they weren't too keen on you in the first place and the propaganda just gives them an excuse to outwardly express and think what theyve always felt deep down. Thats my point.

 

[The Dark King]

your missing my point..if propaganda can make people flip that easily on you then they weren't too keen on you in the first place and the propaganda just gives them an excuse to outwardly express and think what theyve always felt deep down. Thats my point.

That's an interesting premise. Personally I think most people are weak willed and easily influenced so perhaps you have a point.

 

[hellified]

So you're saying there isn't a metric to determine what is good and bad art? That's false my friend.
People may buy a Britney Spears album but no one is calling that girl a talented singer, fun to sing along with? Perhaps, but a great singer she is not.
Same with rap, people may sing along to a Will Smith song but no one would call him a good rapper.

If you asked a 15 year old at the time spears was hot if she was good singer the answer you'd get back would mostly likely be yes. Because thats her demographic and theyre criteria isn't so stringent. You ask a 30 year old if she's good singer and youll get a lol. because thats NOT her demographic. And the people who complain the most vehement about how spears is bringing down the music and dumbing down musicianship would be those 30 year olds who are NOT her demographic...sound familiar? I'm not touching the will smith thing because you clearly don' t know the history of rap to say something like that.

And to your point about how whites are depicted in media, I would say the difference between when a white person is "bad" in shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones they also paint such a sympathetic picture. Poor Walt only wanted to make money for his family he really wasn't a manipulative dick who used and killed people. Game of Thrones is full of evil fucks like Jamie Lanister but they paint many sympathetic moments to make over privileged assholes like him into some type of victims. Not to mention how other characters, all white, have some sense of nobility where as everyone darker is either a savage or betrayer and a thief.
The Wire while a great show paints a picture of black poverty in the inner city as nothing but tragedy. No happy endings or great moments for anyone.
Also painted as savages who just pop motherfuckas on the street for the slightest infraction, little kids with crack fein parents who run amuck causing violence where ever they go. I won't take away from the writing because it was absolutely amazing and the acting was superb but it does reinforce the negativity of black life. It also colors the way people see blacks in this country. If you don't think the decades of blacks being portrayed as bafoons and criminals doesn't color the mainstream at large then you need a wake up call my friend.

so if perry were a better writing then you wouldn't mind if his protagonist were a recovering drug addict or ex-convict or his antagonist were a drug dealer or thug?

 

[The Dark King]

If you asked a 15 year old at the time spears was hot if she was good singer the answer you'd get back would mostly likely be yes. Because thats her demographic and theyre criteria isn't so stringent. You ask a 30 year old if she's good singer and youll get a lol. because thats NOT her demographic. And the people who complain the most vehement about how spears is bringing down the music and dumbing down musicianship would be those 30 year olds who are NOT her demographic...sound familiar? I'm not touching the will smith thing because you clearly don' t know the history of rap to say something like that.



so if perry were a better writing then you wouldn't mind if his protagonist were a recovering drug addict or ex-convict or his antagonist were a drug dealer or thug?

Hold on are you saying Will Smith is in fact a good rapper?
And I don't think anyone regardless of a her demographic would call her a good singer. Fun and entertaining yes, but not good.
I would like Perry if his writing weren't so predictable and actually took the time to write well developed characters. It's not an impossible feat. I don't hold him responsible for what becomes successful but like I said bestowing him such influence warrants criticism.
I don't think the people who make cigarettes are really that bad but I do question how the shitty unhealthy product is still made and why people consume it.

 

[hellified]

Hold on are you saying Will Smith is in fact a good rapper?
And I don't think anyone regardless of a her demographic would call her a good singer. Fun and entertaining yes, but not good.

whats the criteria for good? Is will smith a good rapper? all of that is subjective thats my point.

I would like Perry if his writing weren't so predictable and actually took the time to write well developed characters. It's not an impossible feat. I don't hold him responsible for what becomes successful but like I said bestowing him such influence warrants criticism.
I don't think the people who make cigarettes are really that bad but I do question how the shitty unhealthy product is still made and why people consume it.

and that criticism is valid but the cigarette analogy isn't. Watching tyler perry movies isn't bad for your health..mentally or psychologically.

 

[hellified]

[YOUTUBE]lJrgG70shBA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[The Dark King]

whats the criteria for good? Is will smith a good rapper? all of that is subjective thats my point.



and that criticism is valid but the cigarette analogy isn't. Watching tyler perry movies isn't bad for your health..mentally or psychologically.

The criteria for good rap is not only good lyrics and a stand out flow but it's also the respect of your peers. Celebrated universally respected singers like Aretha Franklin or Celine Dion are not going to call Britney Spears a good singer. Same goes for rap. Universally top five dead or alive rappers aren't going to praise Smith for his rapping there's nothing subjective about it.
If you followed hip hop culture over the years this would be self evident.