Tyler Perry should be credited with the resurgence of Black cinema in this era

[The Dark King]

Well here's the thing you're right he's no more harmful than Master P Mystikal or any other foolish ass rapper but they aren't credited with bringing black folk back in the musical spot light. Commercial success shouldn't be the sole barometer of success. I can criticize his shit work like anyone else and not personally feel connected to his bs plot lines. I will say I am tired of his mediocrity being another of example of black success. At least in hip hop most of the commercially successful people like Jay-z Dr Dre Eminem and Kanye are insanely talented and have put out great products. Can't say the same about Perry.

 

[medullaslashin]

I've never heard the junk food analogy and its negative affects repeatedly used on rap music to the same degree or frequency by those critical of Perry work. In other words these people deny or downplay the possibility of negative effects of bad creative works when its something they like but then become analytical and sociological experts when it comes to something they don't like and can explain how it affects the community and it should be stopped or the people who do enjoy it are just being hustled. Both sides are guilty of this.

I think you hear a lot of criticism of hip hop, from black men and the black community in general. Maybe not as much as there should be, given some of the backward values being spread out there, but definitely more criticism than you hear about tyler perry.

You even hear criticism of "gangsta" rap in other kinds of hip hop, so it's definitely out there.

But again, it's cultural. Black men love hip hop. It's our voice. Black men largely don't love the church. Tyler perry represents the church, something black men are skeptical about or dismissive of..

As far as the "coonery" and "buffoonery" charges go, there's prolly the implied connotation that he's a buck dancer for "the man", given that his coonery and buffoonery is also connected to the church (which since the slave days has been known for being accommodating to "the man")

I think there's the sense that tyler perry is insidious in some way. A sort of "sell out".

But anyway, hip hop catches way more heat than tyler perry. Perry is in the spotlight for a minute, but hip hop has been catching heat for years

And btw, I've never heard anyone say anything like Perry "should be stopped." I have heard people who want to shut down hip hop in all kinds of ways

buckdancing? :mrgreen:

 

[medullaslashin]

My position is if its harmful in one area then its harmful in all or if it doesn't have an affect in one then it doesn't anywhere else. And if there's going to be this concerted effort to inflate Perry's negatives then any positives should be inflated to the same degree.

just curious - what are the positives?

 

[hellified]

I think you hear a lot of criticism of hip hop, from black men and the black community in general. Maybe not as much as there should be, given some of the backward values being spread out there, but definitely more criticism than you hear about tyler perry.

You even hear criticism of "gangsta" rap in other kinds of hip hop, so it's definitely out there.

But again, it's cultural. Black men love hip hop. It's our voice. Black men largely don't love the church. Tyler perry represents the church, something black men are skeptical about or dismissive of..

the bold is where the hypocrisy comes in and your right black men tend to be skeptical about and dismissive of the church but those same men offer no alternative to it. Snide remarks and conspiracy theories isn't an alternative.

As far as the "coonery" and "buffoonery" charges go, there's prolly the implied connotation that he's a buck dancer for "the man", given that his coonery and buffoonery is also connected to the church (which since the slave days has been known for being accommodating to "the man")

I think there's the sense that tyler perry is insidious in some way. A sort of "sell out".

But anyway, hip hop catches way more heat than tyler perry. Perry is in the spotlight for a minute, but hip hop has been catching heat for years

And btw, I've never heard anyone say anything like Perry "should be stopped." I have heard people who want to shut down hip hop in all kinds of ways

the tone of the article posted a few days ago implied that what he does should be stopped. Spike Lee putting him on blast (rather than approaching him man to man ) and using weasel words like coonery is more than a dog whistle for that. Look at the pointed wordsand phrases used by people who don't like his work. Pernicious, harmful, insidious perpetuating negative images, misogynistic, minstrel, cancerous and it goes on and on.

What Tyler Perry is is a bad imitation of Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence especially Martin. In fact I challenge anyone to tell the substantive difference between Mama Payne and Madea? How about Cole..you stupid..and his increasing ridiculousness and idiocy on the show? How about Tommy a black man with no job? Pam an abrasive dark skin black woman who couldn't keep a man and whom martin called "beady bead" a direct reference to the kinkiness and texture of her hair. How about martins girlfriend Gina who was light skin (for those peeping the light skin good/dark skin bad issue)? Shenanae the ghetto queen next door and Jerome the resident hustler/pimp acting dude who was an excon. How many times did martin himself mug for the cameras and dance and shout and act ridiculous. This show was very popular when it was on and is now considered "classic" 20 years later. Perry copied all of that and yet his show is called minstrel and insidious and harmful to the community. :roll:

With the exception of the preachiness whats the difference between Big Momma's House and any Madea movie? Martin's made 3 of those (all highly lucrative mind you)...not much of a peep from the black intelligentsia about how it sets back the black community and if harmful. And the most vocal proponent leading the charge against rap was the black church by and large.

 

[medullaslashin]

the bold is where the hypocrisy comes in and your right black men tend to be skeptical about and dismissive of the church but those same men offer no alternative to it.

Well that's a whole 'nother issue. I find it fascinating that bm and bw have gone so far down the line of becoming separate cultures that we even cleave where it comes to religion... Are there other cultures like that? Says something about the disintegration of black culture

But anyway...

What Tyler Perry is is a bad imitation of Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence especially Martin. In fact I challenge anyone to tell the substantive difference between Mama Payne and Madea? How about Cole..you stupid..and his increasing ridiculousness and idiocy on the show? How about Tommy a black man with no job? Pam an abrasive dark skin black woman who couldn't keep a man and whom martin called "beady bead" a direct reference to the kinkiness and texture of her hair. How about martins girlfriend Gina who was light skin (for those peeping the light skin good/dark skin bad issue)? Shenanae the ghetto queen next door and Jerome the resident hustler/pimp acting dude who was an excon. How many times did martin himself mug for the cameras and dance and shout and act ridiculous. This show was very popular when it was on and is now considered "classic" 20 years later. Perry copied all of that and yet his show is called minstrel and insidious and harmful to the community. :roll:

With the exception of the preachiness whats the difference between Big Momma's House and any Madea movie? Martin's made 3 of those (all highly lucrative mind you)...not much of a peep from the black intelligentsia about how it sets back the black community and if harmful. And the most vocal proponent leading the charge against rap was the black church by and large.

Tyler perry may indeed be a bad imitation of martin lawrence, but that's another reason people might dislike him, not a reason to give him a pass.. Still, what you're saying sorta proves the point that bm's gripe with tyler perry is largely cultural... It's about what he represents (in addition to the fact that his stuff is just not very funny). At least martin was funny.

Martin knows the nuances of black humor much better than tyler perry

 

[hellified]

just curious - what are the positives?

once you re-calibrate youre viewing without the prejudices, conspiracy theories, projections and snobbery you'll find that family and unity is the recurring theme in all of work, As well as featuring upwardly mobile black people, redemption and spiritual grounding are also key features. Now this stuff is pretty standard for sitcoms but since most detractors don't make it past the commercials, trailer or an episode I figured it would be a bit surprising. Also once you stop assuming that what he's doing is some kind of con job/knowing hustle on his fanbase you'll begin to see theres a genuine earnestness to his work he believes in what he's doing so its an honest expression of his creativity that his audience picks up on and respond to. On top of building and expanding a self contained production studio I believe the first black person to do so on the scale he's doing it in. Not to mention all the work provided to black in crew and production.

 

[hellified]

Well that's a whole 'nother issue. I find it fascinating that bm and bw have gone so far down the line of becoming separate cultures that we even cleave where it comes to religion... Are there other cultures like that? Says something about the disintegration of black culture

But anyway...

show me another people who were uprooted to the degree african americans were and stripped of everything and conditioned in the manner were and I'll show you a group thats in constant search of who they are and where they belong.

Tyler perry may indeed be a bad imitation of martin lawrence, but that's another reason people might dislike him, not a reason to give him a pass.. Still, what you're saying sorta proves the point that bm's gripe with tyler perry is largely cultural... It's about what he represents (in addition to the fact that his stuff is just not very funny). At least martin was funny.

Martin knows the nuances of black humor much better than tyler perry

my point isn't to argue that people should like perry but to show that he's not harmful to the community and that we need to put down the hypersensitivity and alot of the baggage we still carry about certain things. I mean dude has been making plays since the 90s and only until recently has there been this huge virulent backlash and it dawned on why..the plays were chitlin circuit affairs that essentially stayed within the community. They were skoffed at but largely ignored by the black intelligentsia and only when he started making movies and tv shows and others could see it (read white folks) did the bourgie class suddenly get outraged and offended. Tyler Perry is that relative who wore plaid and stripes at your cocktail party and you were embarrassed because he wore it and he doesn't give a fuck because he really likes plaid and stripes and youre all worried about how it reflects on you (meanwhile your little cousin show up sagging his pants and drinking a 40 and you don't have nearly as much to say about that). Thats why I have this face :roll:whenever I see people express some over dramatic outrage about his shit and why I wrote the article.

 

[medullaslashin]

once you re-calibrate youre viewing without the prejudices, conspiracy theories, projections and snobbery you'll find that family and unity is the recurring theme in all of work, As well as featuring upwardly mobile black people, redemption and spiritual grounding are also key features. Now this stuff is pretty standard for sitcoms but since most detractors don't make it past the commercials, trailer or an episode I figured it would be a bit surprising.

Well here's something that oprah says is not just funny, it's "tyler perry" funny...

[YOUTUBE]qKk90o4fQe4[/YOUTUBE]

Maybe it offers insight into why most detractors don't make it past the commercials, trailer or an episode

Personally, I'm not dead set against the guy. I don't think he needs to be "stopped" nor do I think tyler perry (or some kid with his pants sagging) reflects on me.

If anything someone judging me based on someone else says more bad about the judger than anyone else

I'm just offering up my take on why not a lot black men are fans of tyler perry. Not emotionally vested in his upkeep or downfall

 

[samson1701]

I've been watching this thread for a few days now. Some of it I agree with. Some of it I do not. So, my two cents is that Tyler Perry filled a need for entertainment that just wasn't being filled. It's just that simple.

His stuff really doesn't appeal to me. But, I don't have a problem with him either (more on that later). However, my mother and her group of friends, loved whatever he put out. My lower middle class mom, who went to church every Sunday and didn't like entertainment that had cursing and sex. She also liked the simple plotting and, beat you over the head, moral messaging. She worked hard all week. She wasn't trying to get complicated on her downtime. Acting and screen composition be damned. She, and black women (some men, too) like her, wanted lightweight entertainment that they didn't have to feel bad about when they went to church.

Enter Tyler Perry

No one was consistently doing these kinds of movies before he came along. No one was giving that slice of America what they wanted. The only black films available, for the most part, were heavy message flicks, profane comedies, gangster movies or some combination of the above. Perry showed up with a business model that pleased his audience. Whether you like him or not he should be applauded for that. Art is in the eye of the beholder. How many times has one of us been the only black male we knew to like a certain form of entertainment? Did that make that form of entertainment less than because most black males didn't like it? No, it just wasn't for them. No harm, no foul. He'll, I've read that Shakespeare was considered low brow in his day. Now, he's the standard that most plays and movie scripts are measured by. A few hundred years from now cats could be comparing their stories to Tyler Perry. No, ... seriously.

I think the reason I don't have a problem with him is because I honestly have no issues with gay people. Perry comes off as closeted. That doesn't sit well with a fair number of black men. Though, we may not admit to it, we have a problem with other black men who may or may not be gay. And, the fact that he made his fortune dressing like a woman irks quite a few of us that much more.

That's our problem, not his.

In my opinion, our larger problem, when it comes to cinema, is this: we complain about Perry movies being made but we stayed away from Red Tails in droves. Bitch about 12 Years A Slave and The Butler but leave Mandela hanging. Sure, we'll Redbox the shit out of them but do we buy the Blurays? Nope. Until we start actively supporting the diaspora of black film that exists, we really have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[pettyofficerj]

Tyler perry got more sugar than a McDonald's sweet tea

 

[The Dark King]

I've been watching this thread for a few days now. Some of it I agree with. Some of it I do not. So, my two cents is that Tyler Perry filled a need for entertainment that just wasn't being filled. It's just that simple.

His stuff really doesn't appeal to me. But, I don't have a problem with him either (more on that later). However, my mother and her group of friends, loved whatever he put out. My lower middle class mom, who went to church every Sunday and didn't like entertainment that had cursing and sex. She also liked the simple plotting and, beat you over the head, moral messaging. She worked hard all week. She wasn't trying to get complicated on her downtime. Acting and screen composition be damned. She, and black women (some men, too) like her, wanted lightweight entertainment that they didn't have to feel bad about when they went to church.

Enter Tyler Perry

No one was consistently doing these kinds of movies before he came along. No one was giving that slice of America what they wanted. The only black films available, for the most part, were heavy message flicks, profane comedies, gangster movies or some combination of the above. Perry showed up with a business model that pleased his audience. Whether you like him or not he should be applauded for that. Art is in the eye of the beholder. How many times has one of us been the only black male we knew to like a certain form of entertainment? Did that make that form of entertainment less than because most black males didn't like it? No, it just wasn't for them. No harm, no foul. He'll, I've read that Shakespeare was considered low brow in his day. Now, he's the standard that most plays and movie scripts are measured by. A few hundred years from now cats could be comparing their stories to Tyler Perry. No, ... seriously.

I think the reason I don't have a problem with him is because I honestly have no issues with gay people. Perry comes off as closeted. That doesn't sit well with a fair number of black men. Though, we may not admit to it, we have a problem with other black men who may or may not be gay. And, the fact that he made his fortune dressing like a woman irks quite a few of us that much more.

That's our problem, not his.

In my opinion, our larger problem, when it comes to cinema, is this: we complain about Perry movies being made but we stayed away from Red Tails in droves. Bitch about 12 Years A Slave and The Butler but leave Mandela hanging. Sure, we'll Redbox the shit out of them but do we buy the Blurays? Nope. Until we start actively supporting the diaspora of black film that exists, we really have no one to blame but ourselves.

Great post

 

[The Dark King]

Tyler perry got more sugar than a McDonald's sweet tea

Shit sweat tea ain't sweet enough to compete

 

[hellified]

Great post

LMAO he essentially said the same thing I did for the most part and you disagreed with it for 3 pages:roll::lol:

 

[Soulthinker]

S7842,the post hits it on the head.

 

[hellified]

Martin knows the nuances of black humor much better than tyler perry

I'm still trying to figure out how this is more nuanced than anything perry's done?

nostalgia and pretzel logic and hypocrisy are the ONLY ways any black person can give Martin Lawrence a pass on any of that shit..

 

[archangel]

I'm still trying to figure out how this is more nuanced than anything perry's done?

nostalgia and pretzel logic and hypocrisy are the ONLY ways any black person can give Martin Lawrence a pass on any of that shit..

I really wasn't a fan of his show. I was a will smith guy but Martin wasn't(I felt) consistent in insulting women. Perry is consistent on putting bad images of black men. I can not name redeeming movie about or for good black men.

 

[Bliss]

Naysayers say what you will, but there is no denying this Fact:.

"Tyler Perry Studios have made more Black millionaires in the last 7 years than ALL of the Hollywood Studios combined."

 

[The Dark King]

Naysayers say what you will, but there is no denying this Fact:.

"Tyler Perry Studios have made more Black millionaires in the last 7 years than ALL of the Hollywood Studios combined."

word? Like who?

 

[archangel]

Naysayers say what you will, but there is no denying this Fact:.

"Tyler Perry Studios have made more Black millionaires in the last 7 years than ALL of the Hollywood Studios combined."

He has done so by trashing the black male image in the process. Most societies rise and fall on men. When you put bad images out there, it becomes difficutl for folks to succeed when people are putting bad images.

edit: totally aware Martin put bad images too but I don't feel it was consistent like perry.

 

[Bliss]

word? Like who?

I watched a recent interview on him and he didn't specifically name who, but he mentioned it (in context) whilst explaining the various favorite actors he has used on a reoccurring basis, so I'm assuming it is his repeat actors in film, stage and/or TV sitcoms.

I also Googled to see if he had said it in print as well, and he had in 2012...

. . ."By the way..i.n a revealing interview...he states: “I can tell you that I’ve made more African-American millionaires in the last six years — hear me clearly — quote me on this. I have made more African-American millionaires in the last six years than all of the studios in Hollywood combined together,” said Perry. Yeah, he said it!"

http://www.suntimes.com/news/foster/10920324-452/ferro-to-speak-tyler-perry-the-rainmaker.html