Tyler Perry should be credited with the resurgence of Black cinema in this era

[Bliss]

He has done so by trashing the black male image in the process. Most societies rise and fall on men. When you put bad images out there, it becomes difficutl for folks to succeed when people are putting bad images.

edit: totally aware Martin put bad images too but I don't feel it was consistent like perry.

Most movies of his genre, are relationship based, no? He didn't 'trash the BM image'... Men - period, have been relationship cads for eons, lol. Why would he sugar-coat it, or be expected to?

Keep in mind, men rarely patronize relationship-based movies, women do, so there has to be a male - female 'angst' plot to make it interesting. It so happens that TP uses black actors in his movies because, well, he uses black actors.

 

[archangel]

Most movies of his genre, are relationship based, no? He didn't 'trash the BM image'... Men - period, have been relationship cads for eons, lol. Why would he sugar-coat it, or be expected to?

Keep in mind, men rarely patronize relationship-based movies, women do, so there has to be a male - female 'angst' plot to make it interesting. It so happens that TP uses black actors in his movies because, well, he uses black actors.

The point is it is not correct and serves no purpose in helping any woman at the end.

Men rarely patronize relationship-based movies because there are barely any to watch. How often do you hear about relationship based movies coming out for men? The movie makers won't make one because they feel it won't make money. I'm sure the TV show makers said that about frasier which went through 11 seasons.

 

[hellified]

He has done so by trashing the black male image in the process. Most societies rise and fall on men. When you put bad images out there, it becomes difficutl for folks to succeed when people are putting bad images.

edit: totally aware Martin put bad images too but I don't feel it was consistent like perry.

I really wasn't a fan of his show. I was a will smith guy but Martin wasn't(I felt) consistent in insulting women. Perry is consistent on putting bad images of black men. I can not name redeeming movie about or for good black men.

this is the stuff I'm curious about..when people make these claims they tend to be generalized and when asked for examples they can't or refuse to provide any..I've see a number of perrys shows and movies and there seems to a balance for every bad person theres a good person.. for men in particular for every thug or dealer theres a professional or legit entrepreneurial man. So where do you see a consistent image of dogging black men?

 

[lippy]

Any chance this thread will die by Christmas :smt114

It is turning into snoozefest of redundancy

 

[pettyofficerj]

Any chance this thread will die by Christmas :smt114

It is turning into snoozefest of redundancy

U know how much certain people love to chase their own tails

 

[Tamstrong]

Any chance this thread will die by Christmas :smt114

It is turning into snoozefest of redundancy

Hopefully it'll die soon. It was a snoozer from the get-go IMO because it's basically a repeat of another thread from 2 1/2 (maybe 3) years ago. It's like deja vu up in here.

 

[hellified]

Any chance this thread will die by Christmas :smt114

It is turning into snoozefest of redundancy

U know how much certain people love to chase their own tails

you can always just ignore the thread...that IS an option. Funny how people make an effort to show how much they don't care about something

Hopefully it'll die soon. It was a snoozer from the get-go IMO because it's basically a repeat of another thread from 2 1/2 (maybe 3) years ago. It's like deja vu up in here.

wow..a thread from 3 years ago?? really and how many topics get repeated on average on a message board? how about ALL OF THEM?:|

no one is forced to participate.

 

[Tamstrong]

wow..a thread from 3 2 1/2 years ago?? really and how many topics get repeated on average on a message board? how about ALL OF THEM?:|

The point is, kiddo, all of the answers you keep demanding from people who don't feel the need to repeat themselves are in the old thread, which you heavily participated in BTW. It would have saved you time and energy just to bump the old thread if you wanted to bring the topic up again, or you could've just re-read it to find the answers you're looking for.

There's no need for you to respond; I'm not interested in the silly back & forth game. Have a good one. Peace.

 

[archangel]

this is the stuff I'm curious about..when people make these claims they tend to be generalized and when asked for examples they can't or refuse to provide any..I've see a number of perrys shows and movies and there seems to a balance for every bad person theres a good person.. for men in particular for every thug or dealer theres a professional or legit entrepreneurial man. So where do you see a consistent image of dogging black men?

an example: diary of a mad black woman. The husband is having multiple affairs???? image of a black man damaged there.


another stereotype is that he plays the color game.
Can you take a guess on how dark his(husband) skin color is ?
How light in skin color is the good guy image?


I would like to see good images all around. Some of us grew up in the era of family matters. Yes, there was a few bad images but the color game was barely ever played. Most of the men never had such dramatic flaws. Dad was a cop. The son wasn't the greatest at grades but was trying. Steve was well Steve. You look at the fresh prince of bel air. There is no dramatic male issues. Yea, Will came from a bad environment but he worked on it. Carlton was well Carlton. Uncle Phil did his parenting thing.

We are in perry's era of bumbling idiots for a patriarchy.

 

[lippy]

U know how much certain people love to chase their own tails

plenty of women chasing your tail...I just am smart enough to know you aren't catchable so lippy gave up a long time ago

 

[pettyofficerj]

plenty of women chasing your tail...I just am smart enough to know you aren't catchable so lippy gave up a long time ago

Eh I've been caught once or twice

 

[lippy]

Eh I've been caught once or twice

only when you wanted to be...you slowed up just enough to let it happen

 

[samson1701]

I'm still trying to figure out how this is more nuanced than anything perry's done?

nostalgia and pretzel logic and hypocrisy are the ONLY ways any black person can give Martin Lawrence a pass on any of that shit..

Martin is perceived as straight. Perry is perceived as a closeted homosexual. Therefore Martin get's a pass.

I also think there is a huge streak of male bashing and a general distain for what makes a man a man in American culture overall. That has to play into a lot of the criticism of Perry's work. Though, i don't think what he does falls into that category, too many black males, it does.

 

[hellified]

an example: diary of a mad black woman. The husband is having multiple affairs???? image of a black man damaged there.


another stereotype is that he plays the color game.
Can you take a guess on how dark his(husband) skin color is ?
How light in skin color is the good guy image?

first, thanx for providing specifics..
This is hypersensitivity..it goes under the heading of Stuff Black People Love to see when someone else does it but if its Black People doing it most likely we'd Hate it.

This was the same complaint with the Color Purple...every story needs an antagonist and in a story about marriage or relationships the antagonist (villain) is going to be an abuser or cheater or something like that. You can't get around that.

I would like to see good images all around. Some of us grew up in the era of family matters. Yes, there was a few bad images but the color game was barely ever played. Most of the men never had such dramatic flaws. Dad was a cop. The son wasn't the greatest at grades but was trying. Steve was well Steve. You look at the fresh prince of bel air. There is no dramatic male issues. Yea, Will came from a bad environment but he worked on it. Carlton was well Carlton. Uncle Phil did his parenting thing.

We are in perry's era of bumbling idiots for a patriarchy.

I'm looking at these shows and I see ONE or TWO character thats extreme and the rest are just regular workaday black folk and I'm thinking well this is predictable and marginally funny but wheres the horrible coonery/buffoonery people are crying about?

House of Payne is about a family where the patriarch is a fire chief, his sons firemen, the women work in administrative jobs. Meet the Browns the main family are doctors and teachers with the exception of brown himself who is a janitor. Yes brown is a clown but then he's SUPPOSED to be. Other than him no other character is that extreme. And going back to Martin there were just as many if not more since martin himself played many different extreme characters. When laid out next to each other point for point, character for character theres no reason why one should be called a "classic" and the other "harmful" to the black community.

Thats my point is that we've seen all this before in sitcoms and films wayans and eddie murphy's stuff and perry just copied (not very well) all of it and met the same level of success as those before him so it baffles me that his work should be singled out in such a manner.

 

[archangel]

first, thanx for providing specifics..
This is hypersensitivity..it goes under the heading of Stuff Black People Love to see when someone else does it but if its Black People doing it most likely we'd Hate it.

This was the same complaint with the Color Purple...every story needs an antagonist and in a story about marriage or relationships the antagonist (villain) is going to be an abuser or cheater or something like that. You can't get around that.

What gender was the antagonist in both of these stories?
I'm not complaining that there doesn't have to be an antagonist but the antagonist has to be consistently one gender. particularly in the black community where you have the media has already done a good job of giving a bad portrayal of men or black men in particular.

I'm looking at these shows and I see ONE or TWO character thats extreme and the rest are just regular workaday black folk and I'm thinking well this is predictable and marginally funny but wheres the horrible coonery/buffoonery people are crying about?

House of Payne is about a family where the patriarch is a fire chief, his sons firemen, the women work in administrative jobs. Meet the Browns the main family are doctors and teachers with the exception of brown himself who is a janitor. Yes brown is a clown but then he's SUPPOSED to be. Other than him no other character is that extreme. And going back to Martin there were just as many if not more since martin himself played many different extreme characters. When laid out next to each other point for point, character for character theres no reason why one should be called a "classic" and the other "harmful" to the black community.

Thats my point is that we've seen all this before in sitcoms and films wayans and eddie murphy's stuff and perry just copied (not very well) all of it and met the same level of success as those before him so it baffles me that his work should be singled out in such a manner.

I didn't use martin as a family show because it doesn't exactly present itself as that. I think meet the browns and the paynes do. That's why I compared them to family matters and the rest. The selections of martin, eddie and wayans is a selection of comedians. I don't think that is what perry is going for in those two shows.

 

[medullaslashin]

I'm still trying to figure out how this is more nuanced than anything perry's done?

nostalgia and pretzel logic and hypocrisy are the ONLY ways any black person can give Martin Lawrence a pass on any of that shit..

Nonsense. At least martin was funny. That's a big headstart on Perry's stuff. Perry's characters and humor look cardboard and two-dimensional, at least judging from the promos

Martin was funny, the characters were at least familiar to his intended audience, the culture was familiar, and there was sly "commentary" in there too. For example, "Bruhman" who martin's character tolerated even though the dude came in through the window and helped himself to martin's stuff etc., made everyone laugh at how we feel about the real life "bruhmans" among us.

Martin had good characters, genuine black humor that came out of black culture. Perry's humor just seems shallow in all kinds of ways -- the humor, the message etc.

If the clip below is "tyler perry" funny, it's no wonder he doesn't have such a diverse following. You and I could prolly write stuff like that. But again, I'm not knocking the guy. He's doing his thing. Not everyone is going to like his stuff, especially not most black men

About the resurgence of black film angle -- maybe I missed something, but I'm not seeing a resurgence.

It's a shame in fact. There are a lot of serious issues to cover, a huge underserved audience (especially black men), and the bars to making and marketing our own films are lower than they've ever been thanks to the internet and digital technology.

[YOUTUBE]qKk90o4fQe4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[medullaslashin]

That was some straight up bullshit. If the resurgence is referring to movies like Think Like a Man, Jumping the Broom, TD Jakes movies, etc, then maybe there is some truth to that. Tyler Perry films have given some black filmmakers and studios a template for how black films can be made and marketed as well as shown that such films can be a success, then there is some truth to that. But let's not forget movies such as Best Man's Wedding, Love and Basketball, Love Jones, etc, preceded anything that Tyler Perry did in film. So there was proof that black romantic comedies and black romantic melodramas could succeed at the box office. Perry added on the religious element (moral preaching) to the equation and also made a name for himself that such movies can be made quickly and regularly.

Problem is though while Perry has truly inspired a new type of cinema, I don't think what has resulted from it is worth bragging about. His movies and its imitators don't seem to have much reverence for actual filmmaking. Writing, acting, directing, cinematography are all uninspired and at times are downright amateurish. Not one great movie has been produced from this bunch. Instead these works are more like assembly line products being produced in mass quantities for an underserved audience who is hungry for any "positive" representation. Religious white folks make somewhat similar movies (although more dramatic than comedic) for a niche religious, white audience but the mainstream white audience mostly ignore those films. And why not? White moviegoers have such endless choices to see themselves represented that they can choose more highly acclaimed material or bigger budget vehicles. Black people have much limited options so it makes sense that Perry benefitted just by filling a void, quality be damned.

And as far as his TV work is concerned, Perry's work is even more awful. Its silly, juvenile, preachy, predictable and just plain dumb. He makes the shows of Shonda Rhimes look downright sophisticated by comparison. I have yet to see any great writers or directors come from Tyler's stable. And I have yet to have seen one actor or actress have a huge career launch after starring in one of his movies. By far the biggest celebrity to emerge from Tyler Perry's work is Tyler Perry.


Tyler Perry has absolutely nothing to do with any of the Lee Daniels films or Steve McQueen films. His work had nothing to do with the arrivals of small gems like Middle of Nowhere or Fruitvale Station or Mother of George. The young directors making their way through independent cinema are not inspired by his work nor do any of them even tend to mention his name. And he has not given any of those folks any financial assistance or training either. The new crop that is on the scene spawned independent of Perry's body of work. And foreign black filmmakers don’t even seem to be aware of his presence. Lee Daniels, Steve McQueen and Ryan Coogler each have one recent movie that have drawn more adulation, acclaim and awards than all of Tyler Perry's films combined. If Perry is supposed to represent some important chapter in the growth of black film that point has gone unnoticed by those who work in and pay attention to the film industry.

Good post :smt023

 

[medullaslashin]

I've been watching this thread for a few days now. Some of it I agree with. Some of it I do not. So, my two cents is that Tyler Perry filled a need for entertainment that just wasn't being filled. It's just that simple.

His stuff really doesn't appeal to me. But, I don't have a problem with him either (more on that later). However, my mother and her group of friends, loved whatever he put out. My lower middle class mom, who went to church every Sunday and didn't like entertainment that had cursing and sex. She also liked the simple plotting and, beat you over the head, moral messaging. She worked hard all week. She wasn't trying to get complicated on her downtime. Acting and screen composition be damned. She, and black women (some men, too) like her, wanted lightweight entertainment that they didn't have to feel bad about when they went to church.

Enter Tyler Perry

No one was consistently doing these kinds of movies before he came along. No one was giving that slice of America what they wanted. The only black films available, for the most part, were heavy message flicks, profane comedies, gangster movies or some combination of the above. Perry showed up with a business model that pleased his audience. Whether you like him or not he should be applauded for that. Art is in the eye of the beholder. How many times has one of us been the only black male we knew to like a certain form of entertainment? Did that make that form of entertainment less than because most black males didn't like it? No, it just wasn't for them. No harm, no foul. He'll, I've read that Shakespeare was considered low brow in his day. Now, he's the standard that most plays and movie scripts are measured by. A few hundred years from now cats could be comparing their stories to Tyler Perry. No, ... seriously.

I think the reason I don't have a problem with him is because I honestly have no issues with gay people. Perry comes off as closeted. That doesn't sit well with a fair number of black men. Though, we may not admit to it, we have a problem with other black men who may or may not be gay. And, the fact that he made his fortune dressing like a woman irks quite a few of us that much more.

That's our problem, not his.

In my opinion, our larger problem, when it comes to cinema, is this: we complain about Perry movies being made but we stayed away from Red Tails in droves. Bitch about 12 Years A Slave and The Butler but leave Mandela hanging. Sure, we'll Redbox the shit out of them but do we buy the Blurays? Nope. Until we start actively supporting the diaspora of black film that exists, we really have no one to blame but ourselves.

Good insights. The gay angle is new on me though. Maybe I just haven't seen tyler perry speak much

Btw, I don't think you can blame the audience for not seeing better films. It's up to the filmmaker to reach the audience and make stuff they want to see.

Somehow, I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of expecting black people to consciously "support" black film. It should happen organically (somehow) and it's up to the filmmakers to make it happen

 

[Gorath]

Good insights. The gay angle is new on me though. Maybe I just haven't seen tyler perry speak much

Btw, I don't think you can blame the audience for not seeing better films. It's up to the filmmaker to reach the audience and make stuff they want to see.

Somehow, I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of expecting black people to consciously "support" black film. It should happen organically (somehow) and it's up to the filmmakers to make it happen

He's hanging out with Oprah Winfrey and his show The Haves And The Have Nots is on the OWN. I think it might be going into Scandal territory with a possible interracial romance.

 

[medullaslashin]

He's hanging out with Oprah Winfrey and his show The Haves And The Have Nots is on the OWN. I think it might be going into Scandal territory with a possible interracial romance.

That would be interesting, given his audience. Will it be bw with wm or bm with ww? ..or some other combo?

He stands to piss off a huge portion of his audience if it's bm with ww...