The Guaranteed Basic Income Yay or Nay

Very interesting idea. Of course, the right (wrong) will scream how much it will deter the drive to work and how it will reward laziness. Cause' you know 10k a year is enough money to live high and mighty. Why work when I can make a whoppin' 10k a year. ...lol Those who won't work aren't going to work. Period. At least this way we help them and save a ton on the administrative costs by eliminating various federal programs.

It's the right thing to do and the most cost effective way to do it.
 
The Dark King said:
I found this really interesting. What do you guys think?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/20...y-you-alive/aaLVJsUAc5pKh0iYTFrXpI/story.html
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nah. wouldn't work at all. 10 minutes later, half the people would be hungry and looking for handouts, and predators would be $10,000 richer

What they need to do is somehow usher in the 4-day workweek. Spreads the jobs around, opens up time for entrepreneurship, and gives people time to actually raise these out-of-control rugrats making up their own values

eventually they're going to have to come up with solutions beyond the free market, because technology is eliminating jobs like nobody's business, and getting better at it by the day
 
medullaslashin said:
nah. wouldn't work at all. 10 minutes later, half the people would be hungry and looking for handouts, and predators would be $10,000 richer

What they need to do is somehow usher in the 4-day workweek. Spreads the jobs around, opens up time for entrepreneurship, and gives people time to actually raise these out-of-control rugrats making up their own values

eventually they're going to have to come up with solutions beyond the free market, because technology is eliminating jobs like nobody's business, and getting better at it by the day
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Very true yet the dummies cheer this shit on.
It's a scary world for the working class

I have to disagree, I think the GBI can definitely work if its not all cash like a mixture of food stamps and rent vouchers. It's fucking absurd that in this era of technology that people have to still work. I'm not saying you shouldn't work but working in order to live is dumb at this point. Its completely unnecessary. Also the more I think about it the more I realize even though technology will kill a lot of jobs the inevitable chaos will create more jobs but they'll probably out of the office and more peer to peer work.
 
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The Dark King said:
Very true yet the dummies cheer this shit on.
It's a scary world for the working class

I have to disagree, I think the GBI can definitely work if its not all cash like a mixture of food stamps and rent vouchers. It's fucking absurd that in this era of technology that people have to still work. I'm not saying you shouldn't work but working in order to live is dumb at this point. Its completely unnecessary. Also the more I think about it the more I realize even though technology will kill a lot of jobs the inevitable chaos will create more jobs but they'll probably out of the office and more peer to peer work.
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naaaah. GBI wouldn't work unless you attach some incentive to earn it.

While it's true that no person should work full-time yet still be in dire straits, it's also true that no able-bodied person should be given a handout. Everyone from the rich and savvy to the poor and clueless should have to contribute to the upkeep of society and the community as the basis of living in it.

The rich think they can cheat and horde their way into heaven. They're going to find that if able-bodied people can't find work or can't find $$ enough to keep hunger and cold at bay, one day the rich are going to be targets. Especially when the "rabble rousers" find a way to stir shit up.

Yet on the other hand, the poor have to make their contribution too. Gotta work for your bread. Shine the rich's shoes for a decent wage, the rich get their shiny shoes, you get to eat and sleep in a warm bed, everybody's belly is full and nobody's getting killed or thrown into dungeons or having to hire soldiers to keep their kids from being eaten.

That's the way it should work. But the rich think they can lie and steal and divide and manipulate their way into a heaven on earth, so we're headed for a bumpy road before the dust settles.
 
The Dark King said:
Very true yet the dummies cheer this shit on.
It's a scary world for the working class

I have to disagree, I think the GBI can definitely work if its not all cash like a mixture of food stamps and rent vouchers. It's fucking absurd that in this era of technology that people have to still work. I'm not saying you shouldn't work but working in order to live is dumb at this point. Its completely unnecessary. Also the more I think about it the more I realize even though technology will kill a lot of jobs the inevitable chaos will create more jobs but they'll probably out of the office and more peer to peer work.
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Well, technology is evolving exponentially. If it continues to do so, it won't be long before there are very, very few jobs that can't be automated at least in part.

There are going to have to be solutions beyond those coming out of the "free market" -- and fast...
 
So how does someone who earns minimum wage but works a full week still afford to live.

Say a cleaner who earns 1000 a month working 40 hours a week (not real figures just a little example) they pay out 600 in rent and 100 in utilities and a 100 for food, but they still have to pay travel costs to work as they can't afford a rent closer to their job. They still have to clothe themselves and pay health insurance.

Where does your current system leave low skilled but very necessary workers? can they get any help or assistance currently, if they can't I think it's a good idea.
Everyone has a place in the job market, not everyone can be big achievers but that does not mean they work any less hard.
I think it sounds fair to have a means tested assistance.
 
medullaslashin said:
Well, technology is evolving exponentially. If it continues to do so, it won't be long before there are very, very few jobs that can't be automated at least in part.

There are going to have to be solutions beyond those coming out of the "free market" -- and fast...
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Then industry comes to a grinding stop because if consumers can no longer consume the vast majority of businesses can no longer operate.
 
How will this be funded? Just by dismantling the welfare system? Esp. for those who like the "$80k to each 21 yr-old" plan, where would that kind of money come from? If it's coming from the pockets of those of us who work for a living, no thanks.

I think a GBI would be a safety net for some. And for others it would be a lifeline. But overall, I think it would promote laziness.
 
medullaslashin said:
naaaah. GBI wouldn't work unless you attach some incentive to earn it.

While it's true that no person should work full-time yet still be in dire straits, it's also true that no able-bodied person should be given a handout. Everyone from the rich and savvy to the poor and clueless should have to contribute to the upkeep of society and the community as the basis of living in it.

The rich think they can cheat and horde their way into heaven. They're going to find that if able-bodied people can't find work or can't find $$ enough to keep hunger and cold at bay, one day the rich are going to be targets. Especially when the "rabble rousers" find a way to stir shit up.

Yet on the other hand, the poor have to make their contribution too. Gotta work for your bread. Shine the rich's shoes for a decent wage, the rich get their shiny shoes, you get to eat and sleep in a warm bed, everybody's belly is full and nobody's getting killed or thrown into dungeons or having to hire soldiers to keep their kids from being eaten.

That's the way it should work. But the rich think they can lie and steal and divide and manipulate their way into a heaven on earth, so we're headed for a bumpy road before the dust settles.
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Why do you have to.work.for your bread so what if your lazy? I don't believe your life should tradeable for goods and services. Extras fine but this notion of working to live is as outdated as having a ton of kids to tend the farm. Its no longer necessary. The concept of struggle should be obsolete because while most might be idol I consider the fact that a lot of people won't be wasting valuable time and human capital on unnecessary time consuming tactics. As far as things getting done it will still happen but it will be for extras not life. This current way of life is unsustainable
 
medullaslashin said:
naaaah. GBI wouldn't work unless you attach some incentive to earn it.

While it's true that no person should work full-time yet still be in dire straits, it's also true that no able-bodied person should be given a handout. Everyone from the rich and savvy to the poor and clueless should have to contribute to the upkeep of society and the community as the basis of living in it.

The rich think they can cheat and horde their way into heaven. They're going to find that if able-bodied people can't find work or can't find $$ enough to keep hunger and cold at bay, one day the rich are going to be targets. Especially when the "rabble rousers" find a way to stir shit up.

Yet on the other hand, the poor have to make their contribution too. Gotta work for your bread. Shine the rich's shoes for a decent wage, the rich get their shiny shoes, you get to eat and sleep in a warm bed, everybody's belly is full and nobody's getting killed or thrown into dungeons or having to hire soldiers to keep their kids from being eaten.

That's the way it should work. But the rich think they can lie and steal and divide and manipulate their way into a heaven on earth, so we're headed for a bumpy road before the dust settles.
Click to expand...

Ches said:
How will this be funded? Just by dismantling the welfare system? Esp. for those who like the "$80k to each 21 yr-old" plan, where would that kind of money come from? If it's coming from the pockets of those of us who work for a living, no thanks.

I think a GBI would be a safety net for some. And for others it would be a lifeline. But overall, I think it would promote laziness.
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Ches the amount you get taxed on.for social programs results in more per year. And as Med pointed out the days of work as we know it is fastly coming to an end. We need to figure something else or be prepared for decades of unrest and war.
 
The Dark King said:
Why do you have to.work.for your bread so what if your lazy? I don't believe your life should tradeable for goods and services. Extras fine but this notion of working to live is as outdated as having a ton of kids to tend the farm. Its no longer necessary. The concept of struggle should be obsolete because while most might be idol I consider the fact that a lot of people won't be wasting valuable time and human capital on unnecessary time consuming tactics. As far as things getting done it will still happen but it will be for extras not life. This current way of life is unsustainable
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*smh*
 
Ches said:
You think it's fine for people to be lazy? And be paid for it? If I'd said that, you'd be all over my case.
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Not if you had logic behind it.
People are lazy now and get paid for it. I just believe if given time many would choose to enrich their lives. Learn languages exercise more create more art care for one another more. I don't think it'll be just a bunch of people watching tv all day. A lot of us of are lazy because we are exhausted from doing meaningless tasks we watch so much tv to escape. Imagine if weren't exhausted imagine if we didn't want to escape our mundane lives. I just think there's a better more beneficial way to do things
 
Bug said:
So how does someone who earns minimum wage but works a full week still afford to live.

Say a cleaner who earns 1000 a month working 40 hours a week (not real figures just a little example) they pay out 600 in rent and 100 in utilities and a 100 for food, but they still have to pay travel costs to work as they can't afford a rent closer to their job. They still have to clothe themselves and pay health insurance.

Where does your current system leave low skilled but very necessary workers? can they get any help or assistance currently, if they can't I think it's a good idea.
Everyone has a place in the job market, not everyone can be big achievers but that does not mean they work any less hard.
I think it sounds fair to have a means tested assistance.
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look who is here:freehug: i had to get that out of the way first;)

i would be for a base payment if someone worked at least 32+ hours a week at minimum wage...i would not however support this for someone not willing to work at all...

this type of a program would take the place of welfare...10,000 a year would be 192.30 a week...if a person worked 32 hours minimum @8.00 an hour that is only 256.00...

the program would be motivation to those not working to at least get out there and take a job with the hopes of moving up...once each individual started making 500+ a week then they would no longer qualify for the program

those people unable to work would need to qualify for disability...those that age out would be collecting social security
 
lippy said:
look who is here:freehug: i had to get that out of the way first;)

i would be for a base payment if someone worked at least 32+ hours a week at minimum wage...i would not however support this for someone not willing to work at all...

this type of a program would take the place of welfare...10,000 a year would be 192.30 a week...if a person worked 32 hours minimum @8.00 an hour that is only 256.00...

the program would be motivation to those not working to at least get out there and take a job with the hopes of moving up...once each individual started making 500+ a week then they would no longer qualify for the program

those people unable to work would need to qualify for disability...those that age out would be collecting social security
Click to expand...

This is reasonable and could really work, imo.
 
The Right does not give a rat's butt on a living wage,decent minimum wage etc. They just want the poor to work for nothing and the rich to get more richer plus the Congressmen (R) would vote for THEIR pay wages.
 
I consider myself fairly liberal but western nations didn't get to their current levels of civilization and power by developing and implementing ideas like GBI. This isn't star trek. There are no replicators or transporters. Planetary strife has not ended and won't for some time. Lastly, it is always easy to spend other peoples money...
 
djfromtheday said:
I consider myself fairly liberal but western nations didn't get to their current levels of civilization and power by developing and implementing ideas like GBI. This isn't star trek. There are no replicators or transporters. Planetary strife has not ended and won't for some time. Lastly, it is always easy to spend other peoples money...
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Money is an outdated concept at least the way we view it. Besides the more people who have it the more spending there is. Also keep in mind the same mechanisms that got us here like human labor is becoming obsolete. We aren't dependent on a work force like we once were for production. We really need to change our thinking as a culture
 
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