Going White

medullaslashin said:
The problem with bw isn't the drama. Once upon a time it probably was, and you'd hear a lot of bm mention that. (and it was taboo to mention, even then)

The problem with ww isn't the drama.

Fact of the matter is, it is you who are responsible for who you get involved with. Whether it's a black woman who is into drama, a ww who is into drama, or a bm who cheats on you and leaves you and your kids.

BW don't recognize that fact, so over the generations they've become almost universally more sullen and small-minded toward bm in the u.s. than ww. I'm not talking about how they carry themselves when you're involved with them, I'm talking about those aspects of how they carry themselves that determine whether us bm are going to be more attracted to them or less attracted to them in the first place

A good vignette from my experience went like this: a bunch of young coworkers are sitting at a table having lunch. One black girl in the bunch. I say hello just casually and politely to everyone at the table, like anyone else would. Everyone else smiles and says hello, except of course, the sullen black girl who says nothing, stares forward, and iggs me cold, like it's just okay because it's just the nigger.

Nobody else would do that. A white girl these days wouldn't do that. I have a million experience with black women that are like that. Black woman act like haters waaay too readily. That's entrenched in black female culture.

a ww would regard herself as a racist or an asshole if she acted like that, so you see less of that among them. And the ones who are into bm -(like presumably bw are into bm :?:)- seem to make it known more readily

i.e. they seem to be warming to black men, while bw are arguably trending in the opposite direction.

Cultural trends happen. Years ago, ppl wore bell bottoms with the waists hiked up. Nowadays, the fashion is to wear stick legs with waists sagged low.

Cultural trends happen. One of the cultural trends that have occurred over the last few generations of bw is a "bm is the enemy" attitude. Roll your eyes and snarl, show him "he ain't shit". Even use the common "racism" against him.

It's probably generational, and maybe the teens and twenty-somethings have grown out of it, just like there are few bw walking around nowadays in colored contacts and blonde hair, though that trend cropped up in the past

I don't know about the younger generation, but I have plenty of experience with mine.

cultural trends happen. Some are even orchestrated or helped along by media images. Let's not deny that they happen.

Sometimes they're positive -- eg. ww are warming to us. Sometimes they're negative -- e.g. bm thinking it's cool to be pimps. Sometimes they're negative and taboo to say anything about -- e.g. bw casting bm as the enemy, right alongside with the rest of society

Cultural trends happen. They come and go, just like fashion trends.

mexicans today (enmity with blacks), aren't the mexicans of yesteryear (allies of blacks)

eastern europe of yesterday (croats and serbs intermarried) isn't the eastern europe of today (croats and serbs civil war)

white women of yesteryear aren't the ww of today

black women of yesteryear aren't the bw of today

diet changes, fashion changes, politics change, SOCIAL ATTITUDES change. Cultural trends happen.

Trends in black female culture are indeed affecting black men's love for other kinds of women.

That's taboo to say, but let's reverse it and see what people think.

Trends in black male culture are affecting the way black women look at white men..

I'll bet everyone "tightens up" and resents sentence one, but breathe easy and decompresses at sentence two

:roll:

Just because race is bullshit and doesn't determine who you are doesn't mean culture isn't real. culture does indeed have an effect on the (vast majority) of human beings who can barely think for themselves. Many peoples minds and attitudes are overwhelmingly a product of their culture.

Cultural trends happen. BF cultural trends are having an impact on black culture. One of the impacts, I'd wager, is the out-dating rate for both bm and bw.

WF cultural trends also have an effect on this. In many areas of the u.s., it's becoming less taboo among ww to be with a bm. Women do the choosing. WW are arguably "warming" to us.

Let's not simply write off all the stuff bm have been saying for the last 30 years about bw's "complicated" relations with bm, just because the "race equation" says that bm are always in the wrong, but all other ppl's doo-doo don't stink

Cultural trends happen. The are trends in bw culture that are very bad for bm/bw relations and probably are a catalyst for more bm/ww relations.

And just like ppl generalize all over the place, you have a few interesting, positive experiences with ww and begin to compare it to the bw hating you just because you showed up, and that cinches it for some, a la "once you go white"
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RestlessRita said:
Wow....that's quite a mouthful. I am no authority on bw. I have quite a few great female black friends whom I love dearly. It's the bm that have commented on the bw attitude. I will say that when Ive been out with a black man, Ive never encountered any problems EXCEPT from bw. I have experienced nasty looks from several bw. I came to expect it. I guess that has to do with me invading their territory? Not sure.
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Black women who date interracially usually are not as vocal about our negative experiences but we encounter the same "nasty looks" as well other things from WW (and others). As a BW who has dated and had relationships with mostly white and Hispanic men I have had similar experiences with mostly white women(but also Asian and Hispanic, as well). But the most hurtful sometimes comes from the women whom we call friends.

I have had numerous experiences where my non-black female friends/acquaintances/coworkers became jealous, made snide or nasty comments and even attempted to sabotage if a WM compliments, gives me more attention or asks me out. If a BW is dating a WM who is considered a major catch, the claws can and often do come out. I find it extremely sad when this happens but it does happen quite often.
 
Apollonia said:
Black women who date interracially usually are not as vocal about our negative experiences but we encounter the same "nasty looks" as well other things from WW (and others). As a BW who has dated and had relationships with mostly white and Hispanic men I have had similar experiences with mostly white women(but also Asian and Hispanic, as well). But the most hurtful sometimes comes from the women whom we call friends.

I have had numerous experiences where my non-black female friends/acquaintances/coworkers became jealous, made snide or nasty comments and even attempted to sabotage if a WM compliments, gives me more attention or asks me out. If a BW is dating a WM who is considered a major catch, the claws can and often do come out. I find it extremely sad when this happens but it does happen quite often.
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That IS extremely sad and I understand how awful it is to be in that situation. I wish people could just live and let live.
 
Apollonia said:
Black women who date interracially usually are not as vocal about our negative experiences but we encounter the same "nasty looks" as well other things from WW (and others). As a BW who has dated and had relationships with mostly white and Hispanic men I have had similar experiences with mostly white women(but also Asian and Hispanic, as well). But the most hurtful sometimes comes from the women whom we call friends.

I have had numerous experiences where my non-black female friends/acquaintances/coworkers became jealous, made snide or nasty comments and even attempted to sabotage if a WM compliments, gives me more attention or asks me out. If a BW is dating a WM who is considered a major catch, the claws can and often do come out. I find it extremely sad when this happens but it does happen quite often.
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Since when aren't bw not vocal? Come on really?
And lets be fair and honest here ww don't feel the same type of ownership and entitlement to their men like bw do to theirs. As a group there isn't a fear that all the good wm are going to flock to more the acceptable standard of beauty since ww currently occupy that space. Sometimes your posts sound delusional as if you are some how trying to compete for who has it worst. The truth is, especially amongst this crowd, the idea of bm and ww hating on a bw/wm sounds ridiculous. I've yet to see even the slightest acknowledgment of what you're talking about.
Bm generally could care less about who bw date, we don't take ownership of women in our matriarchal culture and as for ww their biggest competition for wm are Asians, then hispanic women, then maybe bw but bw aren't seen as a threat especially since many try to have white features like long hair and get nose jobs.
 
The Dark King said:
Since when aren't bw not vocal? Come on really?

And lets be fair and honest here ww don't feel the same type of ownership and entitlement to their men like bw do to theirs. As a group there isn't a fear that all the good wm are going to flock to more the acceptable standard of beauty since ww currently occupy that space. Sometimes your posts sound delusional as if you are some how trying to compete for who has it worst. The truth is, especially amongst this crowd, the idea of bm and ww hating on a bw/wm sounds ridiculous. I've yet to see even the slightest acknowledgment of what you're talking about.
Bm generally could care less about who bw date, we don't take ownership of women in our matriarchal culture and as for ww their biggest competition for wm are Asians, then hispanic women, then maybe bw but bw aren't seen as a threat especially since many try to have white features like long hair and get nose jobs.
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My comment was not about BW who date mostly BM; it was about the experiences of BW who date mostly WM. My point was that we experience the same nastiness from WW (and others) especially when we are with a WM who is considered a great "catch".

And considering the "hierarchy" that you posted it may be considered an insult to have a BW be desired over them by a WM for some WW (not all but for some). I can only go by my numerous personal experiences but I have had more than my fair share of nastiness when I am 'chosen' over a WW (or Asian or Hispanic) by a WM. I literally have stories of my experiences for days.
 
Apollonia said:
My comment was not about BW who date mostly BM; it was about the experiences of BW who date mostly WM. My point was that we experience the same nastiness from WW (and others) especially when we are with a WM who is considered a great "catch".

And considering the "hierarchy" that you posted it may be considered an insult to have a BW be desired over them by a WM for some WW (not all but for some). I can only go by my numerous personal experiences but I have had more than my fair share of nastiness when I am 'chosen' over a WW (or Asian or Hispanic) by a WM. I literally have stories of my experiences for days.
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Then maybe its a you thing because hating on bw isn't part of the normiculture, I never hear hint of that shit in fact the most popular television show right now stars a bw in a romance with two white men and guess who is carrying the viewership on that one? I won't deny your personal experience but I don't see people lose their minds over any black women with wm on film. People may be disinterested but they don't launch campaigns against it.
 
The Dark King said:
Then maybe its a you thing because hating on bw isn't part of the normiculture, I never hear hint of that shit in fact the most popular television show right now stars a bw in a romance with two white men and guess who is carrying the viewership on that one? I won't deny your personal experience but I don't see people lose their minds over any black women with wm on film. People may be disinterested but they don't launch campaigns against it.
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In my opinion, it is really important to not simply dismiss the experiences of others in which one may not personally be privy. Its like a white person stating that racism doesn't exist simply because they do not observe or experience it in the way in which a black person would, if at all.

Sadly, my experience is definitely not unique.
 
Apollonia said:
In my opinion, it is really important to not simply dismiss the experiences of others in which one may not personally be privy. Its like a white person stating that racism doesn't exist simply because they do not observe or experience it in the way in which a black person would, if at all.

Sadly, my experience is definitely not unique.
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He's not dismising, he's saying his own experiences contradict yours.

You guys are basically arguing over who gets the short end of the stick.
 
Apollonia said:
In my opinion, it is really important to not simply dismiss the experiences of others in which one may not personally be privy. Its like a white person stating that racism doesn't exist simply because they do not observe or experience it in the way in which a black person would, if at all.

Sadly, my experience is definitely not unique.
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See the difference is if a white person were to say there's no racism there's a plethora of EVIDENCE I can point to, the incarceration rate, the unemployment rate, the poverty rate, I give specific instances like Trayvon Martin if we're talking bm/ww instances Emit Till, the recent Cheerios commercial. I have absolutely no reference to point to in terms of a culture that doesn't accept IR between wm and bw. In fact IR marriage was accepted due to a wm and a bm wanting to be together if it were any of the other pairings on this forum there would be a lynching.
Please point me to a study or something that supports this. I'm not saying you personally have't experienced but point me to something that backs up your claim that it happens "a lot"
 
MilkandCoffee said:
He's not dismising, he's saying his own experiences contradict yours.

You guys are basically arguing over who gets the short end of the stick.
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No I'm arguing her claim that it happens a lot is all but pure bullshit. I won't pretend to be compassionate to her "plight" since it really doesn't exist to the degree that she says it does. There's nothing in the narrative to support it, look how many HIT SHOWS FEATURE A BW WITH A WM, PLEASE SHOW ME A BM/WW SHOW SIMILAR TO ANY OF THOSE.
 
MilkandCoffee said:
He's not dismising, he's saying his own experiences contradict yours.

You guys are basically arguing over who gets the short end of the stick.
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Unless he is a BW who has dated WM, he wouldn't ever have experienced what I am discussing. I have never experienced what BM who date WW experience but I would never say that it doesn't happen.
 
The Dark King said:
No I'm arguing her claim that it happens a lot is all but pure bullshit. I won't pretend to be compassionate to her "plight" since it really doesn't exist to the degree that she says it does. There's nothing in the narrative to support it, look how many HIT SHOWS FEATURE A BW WITH A WM, PLEASE SHOW ME A BM/WW SHOW SIMILAR TO ANY OF THOSE.
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So your saying bm/ww have it worse than bw/wm?
 
The Dark King said:
No I'm arguing her claim that it happens a lot is all but pure bullshit. I won't pretend to be compassionate to her "plight" since it really doesn't exist to the degree that she says it does. There's nothing in the narrative to support it, look how many HIT SHOWS FEATURE A BW WITH A WM, PLEASE SHOW ME A BM/WW SHOW SIMILAR TO ANY OF THOSE.
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We must first recognize the difference between entertainment in the form of "hit shows" versus real life relationships.

Again, discounting someone's experiences solely based upon the fact that you do not experience it personally is rather naïve. Again, it is like a white person stating that racism does not exist because they do not experience the same. Let's at least be adult enough to be able to have a discussion.

I have had numerous experiences of nasty comments, disgusting rumors, snide remarks when I am being complimented, making sexual advances to the man in my life, roommates deleting messages, etc., etc., etc.
 
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