America is the greatest society to ever exist
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Dex216
New Member
I love America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony Soprano
Moderator
"The first time in my adult life I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback.":mrgreen:
Machiavel
Active Member
It's absolutely true that most people want a democratic state, so the question is why the United States has removed so many democratic regimes across the globe and replaced them with despots/corrupted leaders?
In Guatemala, the CIA overthrew the democratic government in 1954, and it backed subsequent rightwing government against small leftist rebel groups for four decades.
In Chile, a CIA supported coup removed the democratically elected government of Salvadore Allende and helped put General Augusto Pinochet in power from 1973 to 1990.
Mohammad Mosaddeq was the democratically elected the Prime Minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953 untill he was removed from power by a coup d’état orchestrated by Kermit Roosevelt and his CIA thugs and replaced by a despotic king named Mohammad Rez? Sh?h Pahlavi, better known as the Shah of Iran.
After the Congo's independence from Belgium in June 1960, President Dwight D. Eisenhower ordered to have the democratically elected Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba removed(permanently) and replaced by Mobutu Sese Seko in a CIA-sponsored coup. Mobutu was one of the worst dictator the world has ever known, but the United States' best friend in Africa.
In Ghana, the CIA overthrew Nkwame Krumah in February 1966.
The list goes on and on, but if the US government wasn't patrolling the world using military intimidation to promote US foreign policy and ruthless corporate interests, I don't think people would want to immigrate to a democratic regime abroad, since they would have one of their own.
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-Man-ebook/dp/B001AFF266/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1
Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq by Stephen Kinzer
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/90540.Overthrow_America_s_Century_of_Regime_Change_from_Hawaii_to_Iraq
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Machiavel
Active Member
Bookie,
You're absolutely right. The idea of greatness should be defined first and then people can base their opinions or examples on that definition. Can a society that still has problems with IR be considered the greatest to ever exist? Since we all have the same interest here in that regard, that could be an interesting benchmark, no? So, where is IR more mainstream?
On a more serious note, outside the United States, this "citadel of democracy" was (or still is) perceived as an hyporcritical nation which preached democracy while being friend's with some the world worst dictators. It's also hypocritacal to profess democracy while denying racial equality to your very own citizens merely because they are black and of African descent. That's why in the super-power rivarlry with with the Soviet Union, the Soviets used this as a propaganda weapon against the US to win the friendship of African countries. The United States had to rely on the good old CIA and its tactics: bribes and physical elimination.
Can any society that enslaved human beings for 4 centuries be considered the greatest to ever exist?
Can a society that slaughtered millions of Native Americans and still disregard their descendants be considered a great society?
How about the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan when it was absolutely not necessary?
How come a country that loves democracy so much didn't use its military, economical and political might to directly end Apartheid in South Africa---but use the same power and cunning to remove democracies just about all over the globe?
How would anyone explain why what is possibly the wealthiest culture/society in human history, is plagued with some the highest rates of depression, divorce, suicides, drug abuse, corruption, greed and violence?
That's what make the United States look bad and not the greatest society. However, in my opinion, what makes the United States great is constant innovation in technology and other areas. The US best in the world(arguably) at seeing opportunities in any market place and develop good and services to be sold for profit which generates unfathomable wealth.
Cinema is perhaps the most influential art form and the United States gave the world Hollywood, the biggest vehicle and promoter of the American Dream. We don't hear people talk about the French or Russian dream, do we? So in my mind, what makes the United States great is its unique and also uncanny ability to export its pop culture. The French have great champagne, some of finest culinary meals and refined fashion, but they can never claim to have invented what is to be "cool" like Americans have.
Be-you-tiful86
Well-Known Member
I don't think so. I can't even tell which country or continent has the greatest society.Most info I have about USA vs Germany.Lol
Both have some good aspects when it comes to society and some bad.Let me give u a few examples:
-We got a health & social care system that are going down the hill a little but still better than in the US at this point
-We're a little more forward when it comes to homosexuality and politics in a way. Gay marriage is legal and accepted.No biggie for most Germans 30 and younger. Our chancellor is a female.Was no biggie either when she was elected chancellor.
-Lower teenage pregnancy rate here than in the US. Maybe due to sex education at school or the general openness about sexuality in the country and kids at age 10 already know condoms are a good thing to use when being sexually active and all that.
-I like the fact that we stay out of the Iraq war.Germany caused enough wars.Glad we're not involved in anything now
-I think it's a smart thing that we allow driving cars at the same age when drinking becomes legal as well. I don't get what the US does.They let 16 year olds have a car which is a great responsibility,18 year olds are allowed to join the Military ,go to Iraq and possibly lose their lives but they gotta wait until they turn 21 to be allowed to have a glass of beer.Makes no sense to me. But hey it is what it is
-I personally like our education system better: College/university education is free in wide parts of Germany. Plus it's mandatory to study at least 2 foreign languages in order to get a high school diploma.In an age of lots of globalization and all that's important I think
But on the other hand....
-Even though I heard it's becoming more an issue there,too,the US still has a lower unemployment rate than Gemany
-New technology usually hit the US before they are available in Europe.
-Way better child care system than in Germany. The bad child care system among other things has couples think 10 times about maybe having kids in future.Our "average amount of kids per couple" rate at the moment is so low that our population decreases.
-Lower sale tax than overhere in Germany.Even when u consider currency conversion,wages and other important components
Concluding I can say I don't think the US is the best society in the world.Not the worst either. I think there's no such thing as a perfect society.That's utopia. Every cuntry has it's struggles and it's advantages. We all just try to do as well as we can.
Both have some good aspects when it comes to society and some bad.Let me give u a few examples:
-We got a health & social care system that are going down the hill a little but still better than in the US at this point
-We're a little more forward when it comes to homosexuality and politics in a way. Gay marriage is legal and accepted.No biggie for most Germans 30 and younger. Our chancellor is a female.Was no biggie either when she was elected chancellor.
-Lower teenage pregnancy rate here than in the US. Maybe due to sex education at school or the general openness about sexuality in the country and kids at age 10 already know condoms are a good thing to use when being sexually active and all that.
-I like the fact that we stay out of the Iraq war.Germany caused enough wars.Glad we're not involved in anything now
-I think it's a smart thing that we allow driving cars at the same age when drinking becomes legal as well. I don't get what the US does.They let 16 year olds have a car which is a great responsibility,18 year olds are allowed to join the Military ,go to Iraq and possibly lose their lives but they gotta wait until they turn 21 to be allowed to have a glass of beer.Makes no sense to me. But hey it is what it is
-I personally like our education system better: College/university education is free in wide parts of Germany. Plus it's mandatory to study at least 2 foreign languages in order to get a high school diploma.In an age of lots of globalization and all that's important I think
But on the other hand....
-Even though I heard it's becoming more an issue there,too,the US still has a lower unemployment rate than Gemany
-New technology usually hit the US before they are available in Europe.
-Way better child care system than in Germany. The bad child care system among other things has couples think 10 times about maybe having kids in future.Our "average amount of kids per couple" rate at the moment is so low that our population decreases.
-Lower sale tax than overhere in Germany.Even when u consider currency conversion,wages and other important components
Concluding I can say I don't think the US is the best society in the world.Not the worst either. I think there's no such thing as a perfect society.That's utopia. Every cuntry has it's struggles and it's advantages. We all just try to do as well as we can.
Sir Nose
New Member
Good points Beautiful, especially about the drinking/voting/driving age in most US states. It doesn't make sense.
German forces are in Afghanistan as a part of NATO, but they refuse to deploy their soldiers where the fighting is, to the disapproaval of some other NATO members.
I would submit that your College System is not free, but paid for by the taxes of those Germans who work. I would also add that in the US the taxes are a great deal lower, and not just sales tax. Income tax, fuel tax, postal rates, tolls, etc.
Two good systems. I have always enjoyed my time in Germany and I am in awe of the DB rail network.
Low tax is not necessarily a good thing though. I am not saying it's bad, I'm merely pointing out that the term "low tax" should not implicitly be seen as a good thing. I would argue that moderate taxes and increased rates of services are preferable - however, that's just my opinion....
Also, personally, I think any society that provides basic care and services to the lower end is admirable. A country that fosters education and provides affordable university to whoever is capable of attending and passing. Somewhere that allows real freedom of expression, equality and respect. A place that is safe....
As stated many times - the question is too broad and un-defined, but I do like Be-you's comments. Very well put.
Sir Nose - Correct. DB is AWESOME! Although quite expensive, IMO.
Also, personally, I think any society that provides basic care and services to the lower end is admirable. A country that fosters education and provides affordable university to whoever is capable of attending and passing. Somewhere that allows real freedom of expression, equality and respect. A place that is safe....
As stated many times - the question is too broad and un-defined, but I do like Be-you's comments. Very well put.
Sir Nose - Correct. DB is AWESOME! Although quite expensive, IMO.
Be-you-tiful86
Well-Known Member
Hehe yes that(about university) explains our high tax rate.Up to 50% of our salary is taken away before even hitting the bank account.How high the percentage is depends on marital status,amount of kids,salary amount and whether u own a home or not.
Our "troops" in Afghanistan are mainly support troops,yes. Medical support,etc.
Don't mention the toll. That shyt pissed me off haha. My ex boyfriend's mom and I have been talking daily.When my old laptop broke she was sooo cute and sent me a new one. Lol. As a GIFT. Well I ended up paying 94 Euros as taxes for receiving it.Lol
Of course that's still cheaper than buying a new laptop but it's still weird to be charged for receiving a gift.The DB network is really good. Have u tried IC or ICE's yet?
Sir Nose
New Member
I rode the ICE when I was in Frankfurt two weeks ago. Awesome!
The Frankfurt airport is great because it is collocated with the Main Train Station. Unbelievable foresight and engineering. You can take your luggage on the hand trolley all the way from the baggage claim to train side, stopping at a restaurant along the way for a little wiesbier und schnitzel.
Be-you-tiful86
Well-Known Member
Yes I love the Frankfurt Airport.Of all airports I've been at(Rome,Milan,Naples,JFK in NYC) I liked Frankfurt best so far.
Frankfurt is quite central.Many routes require you to switch train there
Sir Nose
New Member
FEHG you and I could probably co-author a book on the pros/cons of taxation based on the many discussions we have had about it.
Haha. Perhaps. I'm not that educated on the issue, I think...Just overly opinionated.
S
satyricon
Guest
Yes but you know how to write, which is saying more than most people. Also, most commentators on the tax code don't know dick about what they speak.
Haha. Perhaps. I'm not that educated on the issue, I think...Just overly opinionated.
Aw. Thanks Saty. Good to see you back around. I missed your tempering wit balancing out the forum.
EDIT: Tax may be one of the single most important issues in society...I should read up on it. I'll get back to you, Sir Nose, about that book
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Tony Soprano
Moderator
Liquid Swords
New Member
Bug
Well-Known Member
:smt095
If someone makes one more thread about anal sex...
5,4,3,2.......lol
About 10 men scratched that idea, when they read ur post or not!.
Site rename Analsex& whitewomen,com
Sir Nose
New Member
It is clear from your original post (which you later edited), that this was designed to be just another America-bashing thread. Fortunately the enlightened posters of WWBM did not go there.