Late response to a good discussion
, i have to agree that it is very crucial that a person understand the damage done when a person makes very broad generalizations about people - espcially the opposite of sex. I am sometimes guilty of this myself and when I speak on this subject of "men are... women are..." and sometimes i try to catch myself when i do make generalizations.
there are always exceptions to the rule.
i agree with earlier comments from both MrFantastic & Espy. even though they disagree with each others opinion i'm glad to see that atleast they are on the same page.
sometimes its a issue of geography/economics, social environment, culture and class and family environment in which a person is raised. Living in a upper-middle class american suburb or urban environment, a major town/city vs the south or middle states.
It is very hard for people from other cultures - especially certain types of american white people and even more so with certain types of american WW to see the adversity that BM & BW have to face within their own race here at all levels (rich,middle-class & poor) in the USA. Espeically when it concerns Sexual Politics, the dating game, family, Lookism and materialism will always be a very complex discussion/issue.
There are some very talented filmmakers i think that try to show this complex competitive stigma. People like Tyler Perry, Spike Lee, John Singleton, and few other lesser known have created films/documentaries that try to ask and answer important questions.
in a recent dateline news item the issue is brought up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCoI-B9AYjs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYLeeHgjOCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdxOLRVvIJY
There are social milestones that every young person looks forward to, and if they're not looking forward to them, they'll regret it later. First girlfriend, first kiss, school dance, prom, sex (not always in that order) - that's what I mean. When you miss out on those irretrievable moments for whatever reason, you begin to associate women with loss, humiliation, exclusion, etc. Just look at rap music. .
i have to agree with DJ_1985 on this one. this holds true for me espcially. Many times as young guy i felt like i wasn't good enough. I had the misfortune of being raised up in a very socially competitive black middle-class social environment. I was indirectly taught to hate myself at young age ontop of having complex family issues.
in the environment i was raised in order to have friends and dates you MUST have 1 of 4 things going for you.
A) You must have superb looks (face, body, hair, skin color-complextion)
B) You have to have a strong sense of humor (class clown, comedian)
C) You have to have talent (you must be a rapper-actor-performer)
D) You have to be a talented athlete with opportunities
E) You parents have to be rich - you have expensive material things (cars, clothes etc.,)
F) You must be a A-Student who's going to IVY league college (you have to be the A-List Student in the elite class).
the looks issue i see now, is alot tougher on women than it is men IMO.
the friendship game, the family game and ultimately the dating game was so very competitive that i believed that i was never smart enough, handsome enough, or talented enough to have girlfriends and/or just friends. And i wasn't according to the social atmosphere I was in. So everything from color complextion to your actual class (rich-middle-class or poor) was always a issue.
It wasn't until recently 6 yrs ago that i met some international ladies both young and older (german, british, swedish, austrialian, french) both in person and over the net that i shared my childhood photos with that i began to see i had nothing to be ashamed of. As of 2010 i feel i have aged very well ('m 28 yrs old), i lost ALOT of weight (45-50 lbs) and i'm very fit now and plan to get alot better too when i have the time to do some serious bodybuilding/fitness etc.
As far as attractive american women being materilistic, egotistical, self-centered feminists etc., well its a question of the environment that person/woman is in and how she was brought up as a woman. Me personally, i grew up around this type of woman whether she is a preteen, teen, in her 20's, 30's middle age or even a grandma. i was in the company of alot of what the men in my family call "divas"
the "i only date the cutest guys and i always get my way" is very typical in the world i was rasied in.
the show Basketball Wives is a good example of divas. that is a pretty exotic woman who is obnoxious and materialistic, self-centered, drama queen who's looking out for herself only.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5MWVAmFhjo
A former coworker i used to know, who is from Ireland had broke up with his girlfirend back in 2005. he would come to work with his head down, feeling sorry for himself and going thru male depression. According to him she broke up with him because she clamed that "A man going out with me has to atleast be making $60,000 a year at a minimum"
but i see that being that he was irish that he wasn't brought up in the materialistic society of the USA he couldn't cope with not being successful enough. And according to him, his parents are hard on him back home in ireland because they don't understand why he can't find anybody.
but the issue is differences in culture . I hear lots of ladies say that there is nothing wrong with having some standards or even high standards and that why should they lower their standards just to make the men around them feel better about themselves. and i partially understand this logic.
A black friend of mine married a woman from cameroon (west africa). She was a very attractive african woman who used to do some modeling and was educated in France. My friend met her in France and bascially she really catered to his male ego. for my friend this was the quality that he feel in love with.
However now that she has been in the USA for 15 years (they have two kids together) they are both having marital problems. According to my friend she has
"lost all of her culture" and its partially from being
"exposed to american black women and seeing how much power they have."
And i have actually seen what type of mother she is, and she is SELF-CENTERED and she is also a terrible mother as well. She is cruel to her two little boys and the family is really suffering as well. but the issue with my friend is that she "changed so quickly" and that he was just shocked and suprsed.
so there are 2 examples off the top my head.
However back to the issue of looks. Lots of women who are actually attractive don't feel like they're pretty enough or successful enough to be desireable, when they do actually have sex appeal.
I think also a good thing to mention is romance movies in the USA vs. romance films in other cultures/counties.
here in the USA, in order for a romance film to make money, espcially if its a romance comedy film, it usually shows a woman and a man competing with each other. competitive love. the male character is usually a male chauvinist pig who's cruel, insensitive, and egotistical and the woman is a obnoxious, materlistic, self-centered, sexy woman, who's basically a bitch. And before the man and woman can love each other they have to compete with each other. Its competitive love.
or even a film like the movie "the notebook" bascially ryan gosling's character goes thru hell and high water to IMPROVE his situation (his status) so that he can earn the love of of this woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3G3fILPQAU
she has to RESPECT him financially/status wise before she can love him
vs in other countries like France.
a recent film called "lady chatterly" starrring Marina Hnds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmym0sbR8O8
a woman identifies a man, makes sacrifices and she tries to inspire him to be all he can be.
i am aware that some of these countries are traditionally chauvanist cultures and the govt controls movies and tv. but there is a difference.
I personally used to have a strong prejudce against young attractive women (17-30 age range). Especially latino american and/or black american.
i always saw myself possibly being with a attractive fit older woman (mid 30's -40's) who takes care of herself / has a beautiful personality who's nice, because up until 7 years ago, i had a negative attitude towards young american women.
It wasn't until i 6 yrs ago that i discoverd the old family shows from the 70's and 80's (little house on the praire, the waltons, bonanza etc.,) and started looking at international movies did i begin to see young women in a more positive light. I'm actually greatful that i got the opportunity see what else is out there by reaching out this way and talking both in person and via the net to international women in certain countries.
what i read here and what i hear confirms to me what i must do if i ever expect to have any happiness.
my situation has been so bad at times (in some ways still is) that i don't really want my significant other to have ability to speak english. This way i won't have any problems, i have a strong desire to lean to be fluent in other languages. i believe this will help neutralize alot of non-sense that i have to face everyday.
i'm fortunate because i'm going back to business school next month actually. And i will intentionally try to aim at a career that allows me to travel and possibly live outside the USA. I'm hoping to go to france or germany.
in the mean time, i spend time just preparing myself in everyway possible to leave.
) if you can't get sleep or get any peace in the privacy of your own home....
