I don't know why you're even trying to argue/debate what was going on between me and someone else. Here's what I said to him : Obviously you see that as me calling him a right wing scapegoat? Again. The dude is in all kinds of threads besides this one and his opinions are all over the place. Half the time he's trying to come across as conservative & intellectual & half the time he comes across like some street corner hood. I just wanted him to finally come with a focused answer and I knew he wouldn't based on his reply history. Damn.
So body count is if you are a hate group now? You give way too much power to today's KKK. They can't take a shit without the Feds watching them.They're defunct. A shell. They don't run anything powerful, TG.Today, they too 'are just a bunch of loud mouths spewing their hate but rarely if ever actually DO shit'. You have more Latino hate gangs killing Black people these days.
Bliss don't falsely conflate what I was trying to say please. I'm not saying the KKK or Ariyan Nation are the biggest threat to black people in this country so bringing Latino hate groups into the conversation isn't necessary. But calling certain all black groups terrorist or hate groups in the same way you call the KKK a hate group is indeed a false equivalency. One has a very long history of hate and murder while the other just basically runs their mouths. And today they may not be as open with it but when I see situations where blacks can be murdered in the open and the only way to get justice is a fb campaign its very telling of how law enforcement in certain parts of the country still have that same good ol boy vibe to it. Granted I will give it to you that no one is openly wearing their hoods anymore but the ideology still persists.
LOL Gold coming from you. Remember that the next time you jump in on someone in an argument like you do. But if you scroll back you will see in my first post, I didn't argue/debate - I added 2 groups antics to his answer on Black hate groups that he answered to your question. But you said you already knew all about them possibly assisting to blow up the WTC and the one lovingly zieg-haliing with the Aryians and the KKK...and that you weren't looking for those answers. How is gangs not a straight answer. Tiger said: "I applaud the President for using drones to kill terrorists. If an american traitor plots to kill his or her fellow citizens I say take them out. As far as domestic terrorists whether they be organized crime, white and black hate groups and those who want to bring the country down use drones and any other sophisticated technology to bring them to their knees." But for some reason, you singled out the fact that he said BHG. How is he 'all over the place' in this response? How is that 'unfocused' here? Sounds pretty direct to me. People don't always have the same opinion on every last thing, people don't all think in one box. I don't agree with a lot of what he says but I know for damn sure if I do challenge him on something, it's on IT, not him.
Bliss. You have a habit of running to the defense of anyone who expresses conservative views & opinions when you think their being attacked. I think the only reason you're coming at me right now & even making an issue of what went on between him & me is you honestly think I may have been attacking this guy because of the "right wing scapegoat play" comment I made. You honestly think I wanted info from him on Black Hate Groups? You honestly think I wanted info about Black Hate Groups from you? You honestly think I am incapable of learning about Black Hate Groups or any other hate groups or don't know anything about them? Seriously?
I'm not doing that/calling them the same, so miss me with it. Stop conflating what I'm saying. Because one isn't like the other DOES NOT mean Black Hate groups don't exist, particularly of the rhetoric level of the examples I showed. How disturbing is it that with the despicable murders the KKK committed, the NOI can stand with them. I guess I subscribe to the notion that HATING someone for their skin color is the most basal, putrid ideology a human can exemplify. I don't disagree with the good ol boy doctrine existing either...I'm with you 100% on that, but the police power gestapo mentality is a worldwide phenomena...unfortunately the poor and the powerless are the usual victims and in this country that is often the young black male, coupled with a systemic racist history.
Well I agree that hating someone based on how they were born is putrid ideology however like I pointed out before the basic and most important difference while running your mouth adds to the noise pollution its completely different from not only physically harming people but also systematically holding them back from basic needs such as education, employment, healthcare etc. I think that's why i get annoyed at the comparison, I don't support the NOI in the slightest but equating them to the KKK in any incarnation is the very definition of apples and oranges to me. We could do without either of them but IMO a hate group must actually do something or influence some type of decision making process in order to be relevant. The NIO or the NBPP just serve as ancillary examples for conservatives and/or white supremacist sympathizers (not calling you one i know for a fact you aren't) to have an excuse claiming "they do it too. Everyone is racist" Its like executing a serial killer and a shoplifter claiming that they're both basically criminals. I'm not a fan for any group that further divides and distracts us while the elite further pushes their economic and policy driven agendas to basically enslave the least fortunate of us but if we do have these conversations its important to be even minded about it.
It's funny that I would read this today. My brother and parents were talking about this very thing just yesterday morning. I could find the reference, but I don't have a lot of time to look, but allegedly, the license applications for drone use in this country is escalating. And I'm talking about this drone technology being used to fight forest fires, and the "good" things it could be used for. My parents thought that was great. My brother disagreed. And I also disagree. Before you know it, people will get used to drones being used to fight forest fires and all of the other "good" things they're being used for. And when the press dies down from that, they'll start to be used in other not so good ways, and before we Americans realize it, drones are flying over every major city and we've lost ALL of our rights, and movies like I, Robot and The Terminator will cease to be fiction. What you propose, IMO, is extremely scary. I don't agree with the use of drones in this country or any other country. Innocent people are being blasted because of them. And to allow them free reign in this country is scary as hell, if you ask me. It goes right along with the "Patriot" Act - the citizens of this country are losing rights left and right.
The New Yorker A Reader’s War Posted by Teju Cole “Thanks to literature, to the consciousness it shapes, the desires and longings it inspires…civilization is now less cruel than when storytellers began to humanize life with their fables.” This defense, made by Mario Vargas Llosa when he received the Nobel Prize in Literature two years ago, could have come from any other writer. It is, in fact, allowing for some variety of expression, a cliché. But clichés, so the cliché goes, originate in truth. Vargas Llosa reiterated the point: “Without fictions, we would be less aware of the importance of freedom for life to be livable, the hell it turns into when it is trampled underfoot by a tyrant, an ideology, or a religion.” It would be hard to find writers who disagree with Vargas Llosa’s general sense of literature’s civilizing function. Toni Morrison, in her Nobel lecture in 1993, said, “We die. That may be the meaning of life. But we do language. That may be the measure of our lives.” This sense of literature’s fortifying and essential quality has been evoked by countless other writers and readers. When Marilynne Robinson described fiction as “an exercise in the capacity for imaginative love, or sympathy, or identification” she was stating something almost everyone would agree with. We praise literature in self-evident terms: it is better to read than not to read, for reading civilizes us, makes us less cruel, and brings the imaginations of others into ours and vice versa. We persist in this belief regardless of what we know to the contrary: that the Nazis’ affection for high culture did not prevent their crimes. There was a feeling during the years of George W. Bush’s Presidency that his gracelessness as well as his appetite for war were linked to his impatience with complexity. He acted “from the gut,” and was economical with the truth until it disappeared. Under his command, the United States launched a needless and unjust war in Iraq that resulted in terrible loss of life; at the same time, an unknown number of people were confined in secret prisons and tortured. That Bush was anti-intellectual, and often guilty of malapropisms and mispronunciations (“nucular”), formed part of the liberal aversion to him: he didn’t know much about the wider world, and did not much care to learn. His successor couldn’t have been more different. Barack Obama is an elegant and literate man with a cosmopolitan sense of the world. He is widely read in philosophy, literature, and history—as befits a former law professor—and he has shown time and again a surprising interest in contemporary fiction. The books a President buys might be as influenced by political calculation as his “enjoyment” of lunch at a small town diner or a round of skeet shooting. Nevertheless, a man who names among his favorite books Morrison’s “Song of Solomon,” Robinson’s “Gilead,” and Melville’s “Moby Dick” is playing the game pretty seriously. His own feel for language in his two books, his praise for authors as various as Philip Roth and Ward Just, as well as the circumstantial evidence of the books he’s been seen holding (the “Collected Poems” of Derek Walcott, most strikingly), add up to a picture of a man for whom an imaginative engagement with literature is inseparable from life. It thrilled me, when he was elected, to think of the President’s nightstand looking rather similar to mine. We had, once again, a reader in chief, a man in the line of Jefferson and Lincoln. Any President’s gravest responsibilities are defending the Constitution and keeping the country safe. President Obama recognized that the image of the United States had been marred by the policies of the Bush years. By drawing down the troops in Iraq, banning torture, and directly and respectfully addressing the countries of Europe and the Middle East, Obama signaled that those of us on the left had not hoped in vain for change. When, in 2009, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, we noted the absurdity of such premature plaudits, but also saw the occasion as encouragement for the difficult work to come. From the optimistic perspective of those early days, Obama’s foreign policy has lurched from disappointing to disastrous. Iraq endures a shaky peace and Afghanistan remains a mire, but these situations might have been the same regardless of who was President. More troubling has been his conduct in the other arenas of the Global War on Terror. The United States is now at war in all but name in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen. In pursuit of Al Qaeda, their allies, and a number of barely related militias, the President and his national-security team now make extraordinarily frequent use of assassinations. The White House, the C.I.A., and the Joint Special Operations Command have so far killed large numbers of people. Because of the secret nature of the strikes, the precise number is unknown, but estimates range from a several hundred to over three thousand. These killings have happened without any attempt to arrest or detain their targets, and beyond the reach of any legal oversight. Many of the dead are women and children. Among the men, it is impossible to say how many are terrorists, how many are militants, and how many are simply, to use the administration’s obscene designation, “young men of military age.” The dependence on unmanned aerial vehicles—also called drones—for these killings, which began in 2002 and have increased under the Obama Administration, is finally coming to wider attention. We now have firsthand testimony from the pilots who remotely operate the drones, many of whom have suffered post-traumatic stress reactions to the work. There is also the testimony of the survivors of drone attacks: heartbreaking stories of mistaken identity, grisly tales of sudden death from a machine in the sky. In one such story reported by The New York Times, the relatives of a pair of dead cousins said, “We found eyes, but there were no faces left.” The recently leaked Department of Justice white paper indicating guidelines for the President’s assassination of his fellow Americans has shone a spotlight on these “dirty wars” (as the journalist Jeremy Scahill rightly calls them in his documentary film and book of the same title). The plain fact is that our leaders have been killing at will. How on earth did this happen to the reader in chief? What became of literature’s vaunted power to inspire empathy? Why was the candidate Obama, in word and in deed, so radically different from the President he became? In Andrei Tarkovsky’s eerie 1979 masterpiece, “Stalker,” the landscape called the Zona has the power to grant people’s deepest wishes, but it can also derange those who traverse it. I wonder if the Presidency is like that: a psychoactive landscape that can madden whomever walks into it, be he inarticulate and incurious, or literary and cosmopolitan. According to a report in the New York Times, the targets of drone strikes are selected for death at weekly meetings in the White House; no name is added to the list without the President’s approval. Where land mines are indiscrimate, cheap, and brutal, drones are discriminate, expensive, and brutal. And yet they are insufficiently discriminate: the assassination of the Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud in Pakistan in 2009 succeeded only on the seventeenth attempt. The sixteen near misses of the preceding year killed between two hundred and eighty and four hundred and ten other people. Literature fails us here. What makes certain Somali, Pakistani, Yemeni, and American people of so little account that even after killing them, the United States disavows all knowledge of their deaths? How much furious despair is generated from so much collateral damage? Of late, riding the subway in Brooklyn, I have been having a waking dream, or rather a daytime nightmare, in which the subway car ahead of mine explodes. My fellow riders and I look at one another, then look again at the burning car ahead, certain of our deaths. The fire comes closer, and what I feel is bitterness and sorrow that it’s all ending so soon: no more books, no more love, no more jokes, no more Schubert, no more Black Star. All this spins through my mind on tranquil mornings as the D train trundles between 36th Street and Atlantic Avenue and bored commuters check their phones. They just want to get to work. I sit rigid in my seat, thinking, I don’t want to die, not here, not yet. I imagine those in northwest Pakistan or just outside Sana’a who go about their day thinking the same. The difference for some of them is that the plane is already hovering in the air, ready to strike. I know language is unreliable, that it is not a vending machine of the desires, but the law seems to be getting us nowhere. And so I take helpless refuge in literature again, rewriting the opening lines of seven well-known books: continue here Teju Cole is a photographer and writer. His novel “Open City” was published last year.
You're dangerously oversimplifying the ideology of the NOI. They believe this nation and its origins are steeped in racial hatred by Whites against every minority group in this country. The problem with the NOI is they view racism as something deeply rooted in the character of many if not most White people. They don't randomly hate WHite people just because and want them to all go back to Europe. Groups like the Black Panthers(not a hate group) and the NOI are byproducts of this nation's racist past, and in many ways present. They weren't conceived in a vacuum. And these groups don't specifically target Whites for violent retaliation for perceived offenses. TDK is right, this is totally a false equivalence. It would be like someone decrying the drop out rate in Chicago public schools, and someone else arguing what's the big deal because students drop out at Harvard too. True, but it doesn't make both examples the same at all.
Seriously, did you read the link from the Southern Poverty Law Center? Do you even know what the NOI is truly about? It has LITTLE TO DO with backlashing at Whites in America....study your ISLAMIC HISTORY! They are not with you, AB unless you are one of them. Be you Black or White. They have a specific ferocious hate towards Jews and Israel. Now did Jews create racism here in the US? No. Here is their history of hate, right from the NOI's teachings... http://www.thenationofislam.org/yakubabraham.html So sorry, their hate is not modern, nor harmless. Since I keep having to repeat myself...for the last time, I never compared the two as the same. The NOI was provided is an EXAMPLE OF a HATE GROUP, thus defined by the Govt and Hate watchdog groups. You and TDK want to run with it that that means all hate groups MUST be the exact same in order to be defined as hate groups..that's on you. I mean really, the fact that Elijah Muhammad INVITED the KKK Grand Wizard to speak to 5,000 Nation members, the fact that the KKK hailed him as their BLACK HITLER :smt120 the fact that Tom Metzger donated to Farrakhan and pledged their Nazi Aryan Brotherhood support to the NOI...can you see that while different in their approaches, both are hate groups who found a commonality in their hate? Perhaps you should argue your point with a Jew, idk.
There's 10,000+ gun-restriction laws instituted in this country...and counting. Name one Drone law. Just one.... Did you happen to catch this from Naija's post? Now name the Amendments and Congressional procedures Drone's usage have disregarded. The President's decision to bypass and unilaterally choose when, where and who, should appall you. My heart loves who he had killed, but bypassing our checks and balances to do so is not worth the slippery slope. #thePatriotAct...and #NDAALegislation...
Amen sister. Some of these dummies just don't get it. People really need to stop with the "as long as it ain't me attitude" because one day it definitely will be
Groups like the KKK have at times praised the NOI because they too are race separatists and advocate the idea that the races should live separately from each other. It's wrong additionally to assume the NOI has anything at all to do with traditional Islam. Elijah Muhammad bastardized parts of Islam to create his own religious order, but they aren't considered true followers of the faith worldwide. I see the NOI as more crazy but not really threatening to anyone. The KKK and the Aryan Brotherhood back up their rhetoric with body counts. Lastly Bliss, are you suggesting gun ownership is over-regulated??? The 10K + gun laws you mentioned aren't all about restricting gun ownership. Most are just the opposite, to ease one's legal access to guns, state to state. But I can guess where you got that stat from, '10,000+ gun restriction laws.':| Not really.
Hey! I had it originally posted as "guns laws" then I edited because it didn't make sense...but I meant to say 'gun REGULATIONS" not restrictions. So :smt019
And that's why drone use is not only dangerous in this country, but around the world. Yet, the media isn't making a big deal about the collateral damage. Hmmm....I wonder why. It wouldn't have to do with the standing President being a Democrat would it? When Bush was President, the media couldn't get enough of beating the waterboarding incidents down our throats, but yet they're curiously silent about the drone attacks (since those stories aren't splashed all over MSN and Yahoo).
This. When Farrakhan & NOI or whoever the HNIC of the New Black Panther Party are on the same level bullshit as this dude was call me : Yahweh ben Yahweh. Yahweh ben Yahweh was the adopted name of Hulon Mitchell, Jr. (October 27, 1935 – May 7, 2007), founder and leader of the Nation of Yahweh, a black supremacist new religious movement founded in 1979. Born into a family affiliated with the Antioch Church of God in Christ in Enid, Oklahoma, his father, Reverend Dr. Hulon Mitchell Sr. was the minister and his mother, Dr. Pearl Mitchell was the pianist. In 1991, Mitchell was convicted of conspiring to murder white people as an initiation rite to his cult, as well as former members who disagreed with him, in one case by decapitation. He was released on parole in 2001 on the condition of not reconnecting with his old congregation. He died of prostate cancer in 2007.
