Police arrest 16 in twisted gang rape of 11-year-old girl in Cleveland, Texas.

sockervadd said:
since we do not know all the facts all we can say it's not ok for 16 men to do that to a girl.

now nico, what if this wasn't her first rape, it is known that many victims tend to become promiscuous.. they want to relive the trauma, weather that's the case or not she needs therapy, not someone to blame her for what happened
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Excellent points, Sockervadd.

Something is obviously wrong in the girl's home IMO. The question that no one seems to be asking is WHERE THE HELL HAS THE PARENTAL SUPERVISION BEEN FOR THIS CHILD? Why was there no one looking after this child's welfare?
 
Nico said:
So if a girl was begging for something and got it, it isn't partially her fault?
Interesting perspective...



1. I wouldn't raise a daughter naive enough to get into a car with a 19 year old boy.

Put it his way, if your kid crosses the street without looking and gets hit. Are you gonna be pissed at the driver for not seeing them? Yes
But are you also gonna wonder why your kid didn't look both ways.....aren't you gonna question that?
Or what if your kid bullies people at school then one of his victims brings a gun and shoots them?
No matter how pissed you are, you have to acknowledge that your kid was partially to blame.

To deny that would be..........well denial.



I also stand 100% behind my statement that this wouldn't happen to the average girl.

I'd be the first to castrate these guys, but I'd also be the first to ask the girl what was she thinking?
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You may wonder whether she was of "average" intellect, whether her "begging" for it makes her partly responsible, whether people will wonder about the "evidence" or even whether she was naive. No matter what you might assume or attribute to this victim would matter in fact.

This is not the first minor to have been involved in a scenario of having sex with older minors or adults. Statutory rape laws have been long recognized, since the 13th century in England. So, historically, laws has recognized that minors of young ages are not like adults, that the concept of an "average" minor has not meaning, and so they must be protected and afforded a different status for the purposes of sex.

It doesn't matter one bit, nor should it. The plain fact is that minors of her are deemed unable to give consent to have sex, whether because of naivety, ignorance, thoughtlessness, mental incompetence, carelessness, promiscuity, or whatever, period. It doesn't matter if she took off her clothes and begged them. It doesn't matter if she presented a false ID.

Assailants have used all kinds of defenses for decades to avoid prosecution when they had sex with minors. At the end of the day only three things matter, was the person a minor under the definition of Statutory rape, did a sexual act take place and was the perpetrator a person of sufficient age as required by the statute. If those conditions can be satisfied then there guilt has been established and it's only a matter of determining the sentence for the crime.

If it makes you feel any better a different set of laws also prevent that not so naive son or daughter who's a minor from taking your credit card, charging it to the limit, and making you responsible for paying the bills. I'll bet you don't have a problem with considering them a minor at that point.
 
mikesandy said:
Yeah, I understand what your saying about our history personally. At times I still feel a bit fearful about us engaging in interracial relationships, as if some people believe that it's more acceptable for every other race to engage in interracial relationships except black guys. (Ie, black guys only talking to black women) That's the disappointing thing about because I grew up thinking that way and missed a few opportunities several years ago when I met a few white girls that did have interest in me but I had to think about my parents ideology about it and say, "nah, I can't do it".
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See that is the thing, you have to know what you want and go for it with unshakable self confidence. You speak for yourself, not allow others to define you as a person.

I give respect to others in order to get respect, because I wouldn't want someone judging me merely by race without any idea of my individual personality.

I realize there is always going to be ignorance in the world, the only thing we can control is how we deal with it. As the old maxim goes, actions speak louder than words, because you are the one that has to attain your personal happiness through your choices in life. Just live your life bro.
 
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GQ Brotha said:
See that is the thing, you have to know what you want and go for it with unshakable self confidence. You speak for yourself, not allow others to define you as a person.

I give respect to others in order to get respect, because I wouldn't want someone judging me merely by race without any idea of my individual personality.

I realize there is always going to be ignorance in the world, the only thing we can control is how we deal with it. As the old maxim goes, actions speak louder than words, because you are the one that has to attain your personal happiness through your choices in life. Just live your life bro.
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I think if we were on an even ground with whites, financially, socio-economically, and academically, then perhaps the ignorance we see would be a little less prevalent in society.
 
mikesandy said:
I think if we were on an even ground with whites, financially, socio-economically, and academically, then perhaps the ignorance we see would be a little less prevalent in society.
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The operative word is ignorance, and racism doesn't have a rational basis.
Perhaps sad, but I believe that ignorance, like death and taxes will be with us always. The ebb and flow of ignorance seems to change with the status of the economy. During times when the economy cycles downwardly, there will be those ignorant people looking to blame others for their personal woes. It's been noted that since the election of President Obama there has been a rise in "hate groups" of more than 50%. There are those who have stated when polled that Obama lacks the "mental" abilities" to be president.


If you believe that you will be viewed differently because you attain a modicum of success, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment. As GQ mentioned, better you maintain confidence in yourself and not worry about what others think. Live your life with confident pursuing the educational and occupation goals and romance that you want, without reservation or apprehension.

Perseverance is the one quality that I believe African Americans have learned through their struggles and experiences in American society. So, use those lessons from the past to help build your future. I have a sense that any of the women you desire will be much more attracted to this quality than the timidity of self- doubt.
 
I don't necessarily think I'd be viewed differently if I'd be successful. I think that depends largely on who I'm around, so perhaps that's an unknown variable. Some people would view it positively, some would view it negatively. You are also completely correct about the characteristic of perseverance that we have. Personally, I'm a hard working guy, I'm not lazy at all.

When you mentioned about hate groups, here's an article on CNN I found about it. It's a bit disturbing and makes you wonder what the future would be like, if American society is more tolerant to us or not.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-23/...uthern-poverty-law-center-mark-potok?_s=PM:US

http://www.theroot.com/views/white-supremacists-hate-groups-rising

Number of U.S. hate groups on the rise, report says
February 23, 2011|By the CNN Wire Staff

The number of radical right groups in America -- including hate groups, "Patriot" groups and nativist groups -- increased in 2010 for the second year in a row, according to a report by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The organization's quarterly publication, Intelligence Report, said the growth was "driven by resentment over the changing racial demographics of the country, frustration over the government's handling of the economy, and the mainstreaming of conspiracy theories and other demonizing propaganda aimed at various minorities."

The SPLC documented 1,002 hate groups operating in the United States in 2010, a 7.5% increase from the year before. It was the first time that more than 1,000 hate groups were recorded since the organization started tracking them in the 1980s.

But the biggest growth was in so-called "Patriot" groups, which the organization described as conspiracy-minded groups that see the federal government as their primary enemy. There were 300 new groups like this, an increase of more than 60% from the year before, the report said. A lot of the growth in the Patriot groups came from an increase in the number of militias recorded.

There was also a smaller increase in the number of anti-immigrant vigilante groups, SPLC reported.

"We were expecting to see the winds out of their sails because of the mainstreaming (of some of the radical right's ideas), but that hasn't been the case," said Mark Potok, director of SPLC's Intelligence Project.

He cited developments in the past year such as the passing in Arizona of a restrictive immigration law as an example of extremist ideas being folded into the mainstream.

Politicians affiliated with the Tea Party movement have also co-opted some of the extremist groups' agenda, ranging from attacking birthright citizenship to requiring special permission for federal agents to carry out operations without the local sheriff's consent.

But, Potok pointed out, there is a difference between the Tea Party movement and the Patriot movement described in the report.

The Tea Party is not considered an extremist or hate group, "but there are some strains of extremism" in it, he said.

On the organization's website, there is a new map that includes a list of all the hate groups and extremist organizations operating in each state. The rise of the Patriot groups is especially notable because this is the subset of radical right groups most associated with violence.

"The real large criminal plots have come more from Patriot groups than the hate groups," Potok said.

As an example, he noted a man with a long history of anti-government activities who was arrested in January in a car filled with explosives outside a mosque in Dearborn, Michigan.

There was also a case of a neo-Nazi who was arrested in January as he headed for the Arizona border with a dozen homemade grenades, and another case where police discovered a plot to bomb a Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in Spokane, Washington, he said.
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swirlman07 said:
The operative word is ignorance, and racism doesn't have a rational basis.
Perhaps sad, but I believe that ignorance, like death and taxes will be with us always. The ebb and flow of ignorance seems to change with the status of the economy. During times when the economy cycles downwardly, there will be those ignorant people looking to blame others for their personal woes. It's been noted that since the election of President Obama there has been a rise in "hate groups" of more than 50%. There are those who have stated when polled that Obama lacks the "mental" abilities" to be president.


If you believe that you will be viewed differently because you attain a modicum of success, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment. As GQ mentioned, better you maintain confidence in yourself and not worry about what others think. Live your life with confident pursuing the educational and occupation goals and romance that you want, without reservation or apprehension.

Perseverance is the one quality that I believe African Americans have learned through their struggles and experiences in American society. So, use those lessons from the past to help build your future. I have a sense that any of the women you desire will be much more attracted to this quality than the timidity of self- doubt.
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Very poignantly stated. A lot of the folks who went through the Civil Rights struggles were very educated and mannered individuals who endured all kinds of abuse just for being black. However they saw the bigger picture in the long run, a means to an end.

We've all at some point seen the Civil Rights Era clips. Imagine sitting at a lunch counter at a sit-in and a white person comes up to you, spits on you, calls you nigger and they all start to punch you just because you are black. As a black person to tolerate that treatment as a tactic that could achieve your wider goal of equal rights took a lot of inner strength.
 
mikesandy said:
I don't necessarily think I'd be viewed differently if I'd be successful. I think that depends largely on who I'm around, so perhaps that's an unknown variable. Some people would view it positively, some would view it negatively. You are also completely correct about the characteristic of perseverance that we have. Personally, I'm a hard working guy, I'm not lazy at all.

When you mentioned about hate groups, here's an article on CNN I found about it. It's a bit disturbing and makes you wonder what the future would be like, if American society is more tolerant to us or not.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-23/...uthern-poverty-law-center-mark-potok?_s=PM:US

http://www.theroot.com/views/white-supremacists-hate-groups-rising
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Having exposed myself to different cultures I recognize there will always be those kind of elements in a given society.

You can find it across cultures, the planet over. I believe its a human condition of intolerance born out of discomfort, ignorance and stereotypes.

What I can appreciate in the USA in 2011 is that unlike prior generations an individual today is not able to as easily get away with what we saw in the Southern states during segregation where a black person could be killed and no one held to account for it.

Shame has been brought on such folks and the arms of justice has realized what these folks were terrorists and murderers.

The problem was in much of the past this nation spoke with a voice that differed from reality. As long as we apply the tenants of the Constitution to all Americans then those folks don't have to like me, but respect my rights outlined as an American is what I require. :)
 
GQ Brotha said:
Having exposed myself to different cultures I recognize there will always be those kind of elements in a given society.

You can find it across cultures, the planet over. I believe its a human condition of intolerance born out of discomfort, ignorance and stereotypes.

What I can appreciate in the USA in 2011 is that unlike prior generations an individual today is not able to as easily get away with what we saw in the Southern states during segregation where a black person could be killed and no one held to account for it.

Shame has been brought on such folks and the arms of justice has realized what these folks were terrorists and murderers.

The problem was in much of the past this nation spoke with a voice that differed from reality. As long as we apply the tenants of the Constitution to all Americans then those folks don't have to like me, but respect my rights outlined as an American is what I require. :)
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Yeah, it's all good GQ Brotha. I guess you could think of dating WW as a means of pissing off the people in the hate groups, political parties that promote white nationalism, and white supremacists/white supremacy. Especially for those kind of people, the statement that I had put in bold indicates who exactly you're referring to. Thefireyphoenix said something along the lines of that in a different thread.
 
Nico said:
lol don't feel sorry for me this isn't High School. I'm not here to try and be friends with everyone or fit in a crowd.
Just posting my opinions and stuff.


Do I feel sorry for the girl?
of course

Do I think it's partially her fault?
yep

Do I think this could happen to the average girl in the same situation?
no.



It's hard to imagine 16 people in the same area all willing to rape a girl, I'm guessing she had something to do with it.



Could I be wrong?
yep


Should you get butthurt?
no


Will getting mad at me be a waste of time?
yes.
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I agree with you. Yeah these boys and men should of exercised better judgement but lets stop pretending that girl didn't ask for it. No sympathy from me.
 
Brittney said:
That's fine, do you. I'm not condoning what Nico said about the girl and I wholeheartedly disagree with him, still, on the subject of him being a troll, I still vote no. But that's just me.
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I never said you did. I just don't get what is so wrong about calling him out on his bullshit. Whether I or anyone else called him a troll or not.

What is your definition of a troll anyway? Just curious.
 
4north1side2 said:
I agree with you. Yeah these boys and men should of exercised better judgement but lets stop pretending that girl didn't ask for it. No sympathy from me.
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No surprise. After all, she got no sympathy from the adults who raped her either. One can only wonder how many men there are who justify raping 11 year old girls using bullshit reasons like this. :confused:
 
OpenHeart said:
No surprise. After all, she got no sympathy from the adults who raped her either. One can only wonder how many men there are who justify raping 11 year old girls using bullshit reasons like this. :confused:
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While I agree with you, public polls suggest that the lack of sympathy isn't confined to just men. It's so unbelievable, and to hear this kind of comment from someone charged with educating our youth is unfortunate.
 
swirlman07 said:
While I agree with you, public polls suggest that the lack of sympathy isn't confined to just men. It's so unbelievable, and to hear this kind of comment from someone charged with educating our youth is unfortunate.
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That's horrible. Unfortunate as you said. I guess it's the times in which we live in. The girl's parents are also partially to blame for this terrible incident. This child is scarred for life. It's going to take a serious support system to be there with her because of the pain and shame she will endure for a lifetime.
 
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