Random Political comments...

[The Dark King]

Oh strop with your ignorance. His travel bans invite gifted workers and keeps out unvetted potential terrorists . Until those several countries can provide proof of vetting within 90 days, and not just pass off border crossing refugees,on us, of course he should keep them put.
You want them here? You? really?

He's not cutting people's benefits. Its a predictor of less people needing it based on an increased employment rate.
Eg: someone not working now and on Medicaid...is projected to be working in ten years time and will no longer need it. (thats how long the course the cuts have been structured over). So the budget cuts are estimated accordingly.

Or the American who doesn't want full health coverage, just catastrophic coverage. They will also drop off, affecting the allotted budget.

We already have an incredibly rigorous vetting process that's horseshit. My cousin had to wait 7 YEARS before she was allowed to come here and that's with an entire family of medical and engineering professionals vouching for her. This idea that we have some type of open border policy is complete fabrication for the purpose of propaganda.

It's a predictor of less people needing it then why cut it at all Bliss? Why not let it fall away on its own? If you're gonna lie at least try better than this, you sound like a lunatic.

 

[Beasty]

Bliss what other site do post on where people actually agree with you?

Lol

 

[Bliss]

We already have an incredibly rigorous vetting process that's horseshit. My cousin had to wait 7 YEARS before she was allowed to come here and that's with an entire family of medical and engineering professionals vouching for her. This idea that we have some type of open border policy is complete fabrication for the purpose of propaganda.

It's a predictor of less people needing it then why cut it at all Bliss? Why not let it fall away on its own? If you're gonna lie at least try better than this, you sound like a lunatic.

Why cut it at all? Do you even know what a future budget is?? Lol.

What your cousin went through is not what refugees go through. To quote Hillary at a private function speech...


Hillary: Jordan ‘Can’t Possibly Vet All Those Refugees’
WikiLeaks dump includes Clinton admission Jihadists posing as migrants can't be stopped

Hillary Clinton appeared to admit during a paid speech in 2013 that large numbers of Syrian migrants cannot be properly vetted, a key criticism that has been made of the Democratic nominee’s plan to increase the flow of refugees to the United States by 550 percent over current levels..

A partial transcript of the speech, given to the Jewish United Fund of Metropolitan Chicago’s Vanguard Luncheon in October 2013, was part of a Wikileaks document dump Friday that included thousands of emails to and from Clinton’s campaign chair John Podesta.

In the speech Clinton said that Syrian neighbor Jordan could not “possibly vet all those refugees.”

“There’s a discussion going on now across the region to try to see where there might be common ground to deal with the threat posed by extremism and particularly with Syria which has everyone quite worried,” Clinton said according to the leaked emails, “Jordan because it’s on their border and they have hundreds of thousands of refugees and they can’t possibly vet all those refugees so they don’t know if, you know, Jihadists are coming in along with legitimate refugees.”

Lunatic, indeed.

 

[bodhesatva]

There's a pretty big difference between Jordan vetting all refugees from Syria and the US doing so. This it true for two big reasons: first, because Jordan is literally right next to Syria, and it's a lot harder to vet people in those circumstances. America has a much harder time controlling/vetting immigrants from Mexico than it does from China, for instance, for exactly this reason. It's much, much easier to vet people who are coming from half the world away. Second, because Jordan, while relatively affluent by third world standards, is still much poorer than the US and with significantly worse infrastructure, which makes it harder to have a rigorous customs system. Of course the US has better border control than Jordan, just like it has better border patrol than Colombia or Nicaragua. Hard to have great border patrol when you're poor.

For reference, the average Jordanian is 1/14 as productive as the typical United States citizen.

What Hillary Clinton is saying there does not strike me as hypocritical or out of touch with her statements on the campaign trail. It's perfectly possible for the *US* to properly vet Syrian immigrants in a way that a place like Jordan would find far more difficult.

 

[andreboba]

Also, the U.S. never planned to bring in hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees. At most we were going to take in 10,000-15,000.
Also those DNC email chains need to be read in their full context and not cherry picked.

It always amuses me that older immigrants without fail seem to be against new immigrants entering into this country.

Same B.S. arguments were heard about bringing in Iranian refugees after the Islamic revolution in 1979.

 

[bodhesatva]

It always amuses me that older immigrants without fail seem to be against new immigrants entering into this country.

Same B.S. arguments were heard about bringing in Iranian refugees after the Islamic revolution in 1979.

This butts in to a problem I've noticed that is sort of universal, and it's sort of a weird thing: people don't like the idea of problems they struggled with becoming much easier for the next generation. In the general sense, think of old people complaining about how easy kids these days have it.

I've personally known an immigrant (note: I mean he was an immigrant, not his parents or grandparents) who had to work for a decade+ to get citizenship in the US. And because of that, he's strongly opposed to making the citizenship process easier for newer immigrants. It pisses him off to think these new guys will have it way easier than he did just a few decades ago.

To an extent I understand this feeling. I feel it, at least a little bit, sometimes. But it's horribly destructive, as we should all hope to make the world easier and faster and safer for the children who come after us, even if that means lots of things we struggled with and sweated blood for are really easy for them. Even if it means things we cry and agonize over are often taken for granted in a hundred years. As a great comedy example, I've always loved this skit, as it really encapsulates the feeling very well.

 

[Bliss]

Bliss what other site do post on where people actually agree with you?

Lol

Why do you care?
Though I have to Lol..do you really think l'm a lone voice in America? Here, certainly to a degree because it's the same people over and over who jump to disagree, but l'm past all that. I continue to speak the alternative, the side you guys don't explore, since it's apparent this place is void of discussions of political topics that offend you. (However, you freely discuss political topics that might offend others).

Bottom line, I am a diehard first and second amendment American and proudly exercise those Rights.

 

[Bliss]

There's a pretty big difference between Jordan vetting all refugees from Syria and the US doing so. This it true for two big reasons: first, because Jordan is literally right next to Syria, and it's a lot harder to vet people in those circumstances. America has a much harder time controlling/vetting immigrants from Mexico than it does from China, for instance, for exactly this reason. It's much, much easier to vet people who are coming from half the world away. Second, because Jordan, while relatively affluent by third world standards, is still much poorer than the US and with significantly worse infrastructure, which makes it harder to have a rigorous customs system. Of course the US has better border control than Jordan, just like it has better border patrol than Colombia or Nicaragua. Hard to have great border patrol when you're poor.

For reference, the average Jordanian is 1/14 as productive as the typical United States citizen.

What Hillary Clinton is saying there does not strike me as hypocritical or out of touch with her statements on the campaign trail. It's perfectly possible for the *US* to properly vet Syrian immigrants in a way that a place like Jordan would find far more difficult.[/QUOTE]

How? With no identifiable papers crossing into Jordan. How. Let me know.

 

[Beasty]

Why do you care?
Though I have to Lol..do you really think l'm a lone voice in America? Here, certainly to a degree because it's the same people over and over who jump to disagree, but l'm past all that. I continue to speak the alternative, the side you guys don't explore, since it's apparent this place is void of discussions of political topics that offend you. (However, you freely discuss political topics that might offend others).

Bottom line, I am a diehard first and second amendment American and proudly exercise those Rights.

Why do I care?

We don't agree with you and we all agree with one another more so than with you.

Yet you make one argument after another. The obvious question is why do you care?

 

[Bliss]

Also, the U.S. never planned to bring in hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees. At most we were going to take in 10,000-15,000.
Also those DNC email chains need to be read in their full context and not cherry picked.

It always amuses me that older immigrants without fail seem to be against new immigrants entering into this country.

Same B.S. arguments were heard about bringing in Iranian refugees after the Islamic revolution in 1979.

Curious: Where are you getting 10-15,000?

 

[bodhesatva]

We're talking about them coming to the US. Yes, Hillary Clinton is correct, it's super hard to vet people going from Syria -> Jordan. But it's much, much easier to vet people going from Syria->US or from Jordan-> US. There's no way to sneak across the border from Jordan to the US, because it doesn't exist. Everyone comes by plane or (on rare instances) by boat, which is much easier to vet.

Again, think of the US here. It's much harder to control illegal immigration from Mexico or Canada because those are physical borders, and people drive across through a much more relaxed customs process. You can find ways to sneak across, too, because those borders are very long. Jordan and Syria have that exact problem: people can walk across the border and it's hard to stop them. People cannot walk from Jordan to the US, though. Or from Syria to the US.

 

[Bliss]

Why do I care?

We don't agree with you and we all agree with one another more so than with you.

Yet you make one argument after another. The obvious question is why do you care?

You make as many arguments after another, in fact more. Hence why when l reply, I don't post just for you. Yes, I post to you, but not for you. It's a forum on the Web, so you know.

 

[MightyLighty]

What does that fact i pointed out have to do with me?
I've repeatedly said l'm Centrist with left and right leanings depending on the issues. However l have explained lm a fiscal conservative. Im not Republican.
Again, I didnt vote for him but if you voted for Hillary l would respect that as your Constitutional choice, as l do anyone who voted for Donald Trump.

You can't separate fiscal issues from social issues. They're deeply intertwined. They affect each other. Economic issues often are social issues. And conservative fiscal policies do enormous social harm. That's true even for the mildest, most generous version of "fiscal conservatism" -- low taxes, small government, reduced regulation, a free market. These policies perpetuate human rights abuses. They make life harder for people who already have hard lives. Even if the people supporting these policies don't intend this, the policies are racist, sexist, classist (obviously), ableist, homophobic, transphobic, and otherwise socially retrograde. In many ways, they do more harm than so-called "social policies" that are supposedly separate from economic ones. Here are seven reasons that "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" is nonsense.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...e-fiscally-conservative-socially-liberal-dont
I always smirk at folks who claim to be "centrists", "Libertarians" etc all of these ambiguous non-assertive political terms.

 

[Bliss]

We're talking about them coming to the US. Yes, Hillary Clinton is correct, it's super hard to vet people going from Syria -> Jordan. But it's much, much easier to vet people going from Syria->US or from Jordan-> US. There's no way to sneak across the border from Jordan to the US, because it doesn't exist. Everyone comes by plane or (on rare instances) by boat, which is much easier to vet.

Again, think of the US here. It's much harder to control illegal immigration from Mexico or Canada because those are physical borders, and people drive across through a much more relaxed customs process. You can find ways to sneak across, too, because those borders are very long. Jordan and Syria have that exact problem: people can walk across the border and it's hard to stop them. People cannot walk from Jordan to the US, though. Or from Syria to the US.

Again..how does the U.S really vett?

If a Syrian ISIS terrorist crosses into Jordan, he's not taking his ISIS ID.
They have the loopholes system down to a terror cell science.
Once they've acquired their new papers and ID, it's onto Europe, Australia or America next.

To provide an example,

Tell me..are these guys vetted?

,

 

[Beasty]

You make as many arguments after another, in fact more.

There is always a few people in agreement with nearly ever post here but the ones that come from you. Who else is around here complaining about the absence of the conservative posters but you. And actually you don't post for others to read here because no one here agrees with you. So explain exactly how you are posting for them to read.

 

[bodhesatva]

Again..how does the U.S really vett?

If a Syrian ISIS terrorist crosses into Jordan, he's not taking his ISIS ID.
They have the loopholes system down to a terror cell science.
Once they've acquired their new papers and ID, it's onto Europe, Australia or America next.

To provide an example,

Tell me..are these guys vetted?

,

Those are people landing in Spain, not the US. Once again, *physical proximity is a really big deal when it comes to how easy it is to sneak across a border.* It's probably worth mentioning, for instance, that there are boats that travel from the tip of africa to spain in a 70 minute boat ride.

We vet people coming across the border through either plane or boat pretty thoroughly. If you've ever gone through American customs, they're not fooling around. They scan your passport and the database it scans has all sorts of history on you. We have a greencard system as well as permanent resident system that are quite good. But we do not vet people so well when they cross the border from mexico or canada, because you can literally walk across that border in a way you can't walk from Jordan. You can find a way to hide people inside a U-Haul truck if you cross over from Mexico to the US, but good luck smuggling a person in your luggage on a plane.

 

[Bliss]

There is always a few people in agreement with nearly ever post here but the ones that come from you. Who else is around here complaining about the absence of the conservative posters but you. And actually you don't post for others to read here because no one here agrees with you. So explain exactly how you are posting for them to read.

I though l did. Hence my Web comment.

Trust me, people agreed with me alot, in my reps. So I understand why they might not do so in the open here, least you sicc on them. I'm tough and seasoned enough to stomach the hate from you, they may not be.

Too funny at "l'm complaining about the absence of Conservatives". Since when? Because l responded to Since the one time today, a fact that was repeated by others who were shouted down, who finally gave up and left? From mods to members? This is a global forum...it's not just for you, Mr. Rude.

 

[Beasty]

I though l did. Hence my Web comment.

Trust me, people agreed with me alot, in my reps. So I understand why they might not do so in the open here, least you sicc on them. I'm tough and seasoned enough to stomach the hate from you, they may not be.

Too funny at "l'm complaining about the absence of Conservatives". Since when? Because l responded to Since the one time today, a fact that was repeated by others who were shouted down, who finally gave up and left? From mods to members? This is a global forum...it's not just for you, Mr. Rude.

Oh so you are posting for the lurkers how sweet. You know what they are thinking. How cool!

 

[Bliss]

Those are people landing in Spain, not the US. Once again, *physical proximity is a really big deal when it comes to how easy it is to sneak across a border.* It's probably worth mentioning, for instance, that there are boats that travel from the tip of africa to spain in a 70 minute boat ride.

We vet people coming across the border through either plane or boat pretty thoroughly. If you've ever gone through American customs, they're not fooling around. They scan your passport and the database it scans has all sorts of history on you. We have a greencard system as well as permanent resident system that are quite good. But we do not vet people so well when they cross the border from mexico or canada, because you can literally walk across that border in a way you can't walk from Jordan. You can find a way to hide people inside a U-Haul truck if you cross over from Mexico to the US, but good luck smuggling a person in your luggage on a plane.

Im aware its Spain. They don't STAY in Spain. Did you ever hear of Refugee agreements? Look up the leaked conversation between Trump and the Australian PM on the refugee promise made to them.

Bod, you may not read it, but l'm going to post it regardless...you will then see what our President must deal with. Even Angela Merkel regrets letting them in.

It will be in two posts below..

 

[Bliss]

Full transcript of Trump's phone call with Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull


This is the White House transcript of the phone call between Donald Trump and Malcolm Turnbull on 28 January 2017, as published by the Washington Post

Thursday 3 August 2017 18.32 EDTLast modified on Friday 4 August 2017 01.29 EDT

Malcolm Turnbull: Good evening.

Donald Trump: Mr Prime Minister, how are you?

Turnbull: I am doing very well.

Trump: And I guess our friend Greg Norman, he is doing very well?

Turnbull: He is a great mutual friend yes.

Trump: Well you say hello to him. He is a very good friend. By the way thank you very much for taking the call. I really appreciate it. It is really nice.

Turnbull: Thank you very much. Everything is going very well. I want to congratulate you and Mike Pence on being sworn in now. I have spoken to you both now as you know. I know we are both looking to make our relationship which is very strong and intimate, stronger than ever – which I believe we can do.

Trump: Good.

Turnbull: I believe you and I have similar backgrounds, unusual for politicians, more businessman but I look forward to working together.


Trump: That is exactly right. We do have similar backgrounds and it seems to be working in this climate – it is a crazy climate. Let me tell you this, it is an evil time but it is a complex time because we do not have uniforms standing in front of us. Instead, we have people in disguise. It is brutal. This Isis thing – it is something we are going to devote a lot of energy to it. I think we are going to be very successful.


Turnbull: Absolutely. We have, as you know, taken a very strong line on national security and border protection here and when I was speaking with Jared Kushner just the other day and one of your immigration advisors in the White House we reflected on how our policies have helped to inform your approach. We are very much of the same mind. It is very interesting to know how you prioritize the minorities in your executive order. This is exactly what we have done with the program to bring in 12,000 Syrian refugees, 90% of which will be Christians. It will be quite deliberate and the position I have taken – I have been very open about it – is that it is a tragic fact of life that when the situation in the Middle East settles down – the people that are going to be most unlikely to have a continuing home are those Christian minorities. We have seen that in Iraq and so from our point of view, as a final destination for refugees, that is why we prioritize. It is not a sectarian thing. It is recognition of the practical political realities. We have a similar perspective in that respect.

Trump: Do you know four years ago Malcom [sic], I was with a man who does this for a living. He was telling me, before the migration, that if you were a Christian from Syria, you had no chance of coming to the United States. Zero. They were the ones being persecuted. When I say persecuted, I mean their heads were being chopped off. If you were a Muslim we have nothing against Muslims, but if you were a Muslim you were not persecuted at least to the extent – but if you were a Muslim from Syria that was the number one place to get into the United States from. That was the easiest thing. But if you were a Christian from Syria you have no chance of getting into the United States. I just thought it was an incredible statistic. Totally true – and you have seen the same thing. It is incredible.

Turnbull: Well, yes. Mr President, can I return to the issue of the resettlement agreement that we had with the Obama administration with respect to some people on Nauru and Manus Island. I have written to you about this and Mike Pence and General Flynn spoke with Julie Bishop and my national security adviser yesterday. This is a very big issue for us, particularly domestically, and I do understand you are inclined to a different point of view than the vice president.

Trump: Well, actually I just called for a total ban on Syria and from many different countries from where there is terror, and extreme vetting for everyone else – and somebody told me yesterday that close to 2,000 people are coming who are really probably troublesome. And I am saying, boy that will make us look awfully bad. Here I am calling for a ban where I am not letting anybody in and we take 2,000 people. Really it looks like 2,000 people that Australia does not want and I do not blame you by the way, but the United States has become like a dumping ground. You know Malcom [sic], anybody that has a problem – you remember the Mariel boat lift, where Castro let everyone out of prison and Jimmy Carter accepted them with open arms. These were brutal people. Nobody said Castro was stupid, but now what are we talking about is 2,000 people that are actually imprisoned and that would actually come into the United States. I heard about this – I have to say I love Australia; I love the people of Australia. I have so many friends from Australia, but I said – geez that is a big ask, especially in light of the fact that we are so heavily in favor, not in favor, but we have no choice but to stop things. We have to stop. We have allowed so many people into our country that should not be here. We have our San Bernardino’s, we have had the World Trade Center come down because of people that should not have been in our country, and now we are supposed to take 2,000. It sends such a bad signal. You have no idea. It is such a bad thing.

Turnbull: Can you hear me out Mr President?

Trump: Yeah, go ahead.


Turnbull: Yes, the agreement, which the vice president just called the foreign minister about less than 24 hours ago and said your administration would be continuing, does not require you to take 2,000 people. It does not require you to take any. It requires, in return, for us to do a number of things for the United States – this is a big deal, I think we should respect deals.

Trump: Who made the deal? Obama?

Turnbull: Yes, but let me describe what it is. I think it is quite consistent. I think you can comply with it. It is absolutely consistent with your executive order so please just hear me out. The obligation is for the United States to look and examine and take up to and only if they so choose – 1,250 to 2,000. Every individual is subject to your vetting. You can decide to take them or to not take them after vetting. You can decide to take 1,000 or 100. It is entirely up to you. The obligation is to only go through the process. So that is the first thing. Secondly, the people — none of these people are from the conflict zone. They are basically economic refugees from Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. That is the vast bulk of them. They have been under our supervision for over three years now and we know exactly everything about them.

Cont...below