Bliss
Well-Known Member
I can definitely see your ideas being very popular here.
Not me though. I'm not an ant in a colony. Though I do like the stipend so no one feels completely worthle$$.( l read one of the Nordic countries want to do that)
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- Thread starter Bliss
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Not me though. I'm not an ant in a colony. Though I do like the stipend so no one feels completely worthle$$.( l read one of the Nordic countries want to do that)
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Well I'm curious how do you plan to survive in a market where your labor no longer has value?
MightyLighty
Well-Known Member
Lol, Mrs Curves is not very schooled on this topic, If she did her research she would not that 'evil' socialism is prevalent in all the scadianain/nordics countries and those countries are all high index performing countries, they whip the U.S. but in nearly every socioeconomic indicator.
But I think maybe even though it is flawed, Universal Basic Income (UBI) would be something to consider in the future, one that many Libertarians including Charles 'IQ/Bell Curve" Murray is a massive proponent of.
But I think maybe even though it is flawed, Universal Basic Income (UBI) would be something to consider in the future, one that many Libertarians including Charles 'IQ/Bell Curve" Murray is a massive proponent of.
bodhesatva
Well-Known Member
Socialism is popular in the US, you don't even have to look to Europe. I think it helps people who instinctively hate socialism if you point this out:
1) United States Police forces are socialized.
2) US Fire Departments are socialized
3) US Libraries are socialized
4) The army is socialized
5) Our streets are socialized.
Do you support most/all of these things? I bet you do. Very, very few people think Police should be allowed to deny you service if you can't pay them while you're being murdered. If so, then you support socialism in some cases. I dare say we *all* support socialism in some cases. I'd also say we all support capitalism in some cases. Do you think the government should run the shoe industry? I don't. I think the market works better in that case. And so sometimes I support capitalism, too.
I know this is an unpopular answer because it's boring and complicated, but "sometimes socialism is good, sometimes capitalism is good, depending on context" is the right answer.
I find if conversation starts there, it's way easier to agree with people than if you set it up as capitalism vs. socialism. That's not how the world works -- basically no government anywhere is purely capitalist or purely socialists. We're all shades of grey.
1) United States Police forces are socialized.
2) US Fire Departments are socialized
3) US Libraries are socialized
4) The army is socialized
5) Our streets are socialized.
Do you support most/all of these things? I bet you do. Very, very few people think Police should be allowed to deny you service if you can't pay them while you're being murdered. If so, then you support socialism in some cases. I dare say we *all* support socialism in some cases. I'd also say we all support capitalism in some cases. Do you think the government should run the shoe industry? I don't. I think the market works better in that case. And so sometimes I support capitalism, too.
I know this is an unpopular answer because it's boring and complicated, but "sometimes socialism is good, sometimes capitalism is good, depending on context" is the right answer.
I find if conversation starts there, it's way easier to agree with people than if you set it up as capitalism vs. socialism. That's not how the world works -- basically no government anywhere is purely capitalist or purely socialists. We're all shades of grey.
DudeNY12
Well-Known Member
I've pointed this out to many who have called Obama a socialist and claim that they hate socialism.
bodhesatva
Well-Known Member
Yeah! It can really help put things in perspective for a lot of people. Basically everyone agrees that a fire department should have to put out a fire burning down your house even if you're desperately poor and have never paid taxes. That's socialism.
Once you establish that basically everyone is at least a *little bit* socialist, that helps ease the argument, in my experience. At that point we may still disagree, but only because I think the country should be 15% socialist and you think it should be 9% socialist, or whatever. It's a slight difference of degree instead of this great cataclysmic battle between the forces of good and evil.
RicardoCooper
Well-Known Member
"Should be" but they have to get elected first. The far-left seems to want a coronation. Nothing is stopping Democratic Socialists unquote from running for office. Problem is, they always seem to lose. Now their thing is they want funding from the same evil corporate DNC that they hate so much. Can't have it both ways. Maybe 1% millionaire Bernie can throw some bread to "progressive" candidates like Hillary helped fund downticket Democrats
PS: We're pretty much "voiceless" now. Except for where my donations go.
RicardoCooper
Well-Known Member
Mass delusion is a powerful thing
RicardoCooper
Well-Known Member
That Berniecrat wave sure is sweeping the nation. The right ideas at the right time. When the little bird landed on his podium, I knew. #Bernie2020 #BirdieSanders
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Bernie could have and should have won the DNC straight up cheated because they wanted their anointed candidate to win despite the political climate. Bernie ran on more than I'm not Trump
Bliss
Well-Known Member
I know
. You cock-blocking?
RicardoCooper
Well-Known Member
Look, enough with that bullshit. If he had the primary votes and the superdelegates, he would have won. Point blank, end of story. Turns out Democrats voted for the candidate who hadn't been shitting on them for 30 years. Who would have guessed. Again, you want a coronation
Hillary was the DNC favorite in 2008, too. Obama came from behind and slaughtered her. Then went on to take Iowa and New Hampshire then the WH. That's called being the right man at the right time. No wonder your St. Bernie wanted to primary him in 2012
RicardoCooper
Well-Known Member
LOL @ "allowed." He won with privileged white far-leftists, lost with everybody else. Turns out you have to be a Democrat for longer than 6 months for Democrats to vote for you in a Democratic primary. Crazy, right? LOL
PS: Bernie helped get us here along with the other far left Russian stooge Jill Stein
Beasty
Well-Known Member
For one thing the general public doesn't have a really good understanding of "socialism" and being a politician Bernie should have known that and not used that word at all.
When most people say or hear "socialism" they are not thinking about the fire department. They are thinking about it in terms of the financial marketplace and corporate workforce. Bernie should have gave specifics instead of using overly generalized words that could easily leave false impressions.
Him being FAR left was enough to put some people off. He didn't have to further complicate thinks by using words like "socialism"
I liked Bernie even tho I didn't like some of his ideals.
When most people say or hear "socialism" they are not thinking about the fire department. They are thinking about it in terms of the financial marketplace and corporate workforce. Bernie should have gave specifics instead of using overly generalized words that could easily leave false impressions.
Him being FAR left was enough to put some people off. He didn't have to further complicate thinks by using words like "socialism"
I liked Bernie even tho I didn't like some of his ideals.
RicardoCooper
Well-Known Member
Welp the primary is over, Bernie lost, the GOP is in power, and the unicorn goals single payer, free college and a white millennial takeover of the Dems are all in the shitter. But at least they voted their conscience, that's all that matters as we die in a nuclear fireball and/or race war
andreboba
Well-Known Member
This is why whenever I hear Bernie supporters tell me he would have won in a landslide against Trump, I'm like in what country are you living in??
I can imagine this would be the GOP's first negative Sanders campaign poster.
The GOP would have turned Sanders into the second coming of Vladimir Lenin/Karl Marx and replayed the works of both revolutionaries 24/7 on MSM.
Interesting tidbit, Ukraine recently had over 300 statues of Vladimir Lenin torn down, since they no longer espouse the core beliefs of collective communism.
(Talking to you, Red States.)
RicardoCooper
Well-Known Member
This is why whenever I hear Bernie supporters tell me he would have won in a landslide against Trump, I'm like in what country are you living in??
I can imagine this would be the GOP's first negative Sanders campaign poster.
The GOP would have turned Sanders into the second coming of Vladimir Lenin/Karl Marx and replayed the works of both revolutionaries 24/7 on MSM.
Interesting tidbit, Ukraine recently had over 300 statues of Vladimir Lenin torn down, since they no longer espouse the core beliefs of collective communism.
(Talking to you, Red States.)
Man please. There is an oppo file somewhere on Bernie like a phone book. Honeymoon in Moscow, admiration of Castro, his "erotic" writings, no job and didn't vote until age 40, no legislation in 30 years, etc. Why Hillary didn't nuke him in the primary is still a mystery. Him and Jane are under active fraud investigation as we speak but his cultists just yada yada past it. But hey BERNIE COULDA WON eyeroll
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Try again Wasserman Schultz, THE DNC CHEATED ON HER BEHALF ITS PUBLIC RECORD. I get so frustrated with you older democrats wake up and pay attention to what the people actually want. Not another bought and paid for corporate democrat who didn't give two fucks about free tuition until Bernie brought it up, who didn't address the working class and Trump did that's why he won. She was completely and still is out of touch, they live in an ivory tower and simply can't relate.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
He gave specifics what are you talking about? He was incredibly concise. Need links?