Steve Nash Double Swirling Gone Wrong!!

[Iykeg]

But why deny them of their Black heritage? There is a gray area in America with mixed people, cause they're not one thing more than the other, although they might look it, but we have the one drop rule theory here.

How can they be multi-racial when you just called them White. White would signify one race, not a multitude of races.

Why would you call multiracial people black either, especially ones that don't even look anything like people from Sub-Saharan Africa


I also don't subscribe to this whole one drop thing. It reeks of white supremacy also.


I mean does one drop of white make a person white?

 

[Inner Beauty]

Why would you call multiracial people black either, especially ones that don't even look anything like people from Sub-Saharan Africa


I also don't subscribe to this whole one drop thing. It reeks of white supremacy also.


I mean does one drop of white make a person white?

One could argue that Black is more dominant. I personally call people whatever they want to be labeled. In my head, it's a different story. I might see them as whatever I perceive them to be, but how they identify themselves is not my place to say anything.

The one drop rule did come from White Supremacy.

No, one drop of White does not.

 

[orejon4]

Absolutely,black isn't one thing I would have taken her for. She more so looks hispanic.

She looks black to me, albeit not full-blooded Yoruba, lol. I would have thought black Latina (PR, Venezuela, Colombia, DR, Cuba), with African, indigenous and Iberian blood, all 'swirled' together. Hair's wavy, round nose, full lips.

I hate the one-drop rule too, but it's the one in use in the US and most Anglophone countries. But there's only 3 true racial subgroups (Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid...everything else is a hybrid of the primary three) and only 1 true race: the human race. There, I'm through sounding naive.

 

[orejon4]

Your honor

Seriously stop the whole "he/she doesn't look AA" thing. We know that black people can all sorts of different looks and features. And considering all the light skinned black women who have been pushed to the forefront in the media, we should not be taken by surprise by now at the different types of black chicks that are out there.

And I especially hate the whole "such and such looks Hispanic" nonsense. We've been down this road before. There is no such thing as a Hispanic race. That's an American mythology created specifically for the census forms. Hispanics/latins/latinos can be of any race, including black. Once again....more black slaves were sent to South America and the Carribean than they were to North America. When you read all the recent Obama coverage regarding his trip to Brazil, the media reports like to point out that Brazil has the second largest black population in the world (Nigeria is #1). How do you folks think those black people got there? By swimming? Please show you have more intelligence than George W. Bush who mentioned his surprise over the number of black people he saw in Brazil.


By the way Nash's family was originally from South Africa but his parents hated the apartheid system so they moved to Canada. When Nash was being drafted and had his whole family sitting around him at the table during draft night, the camera caught a glimpse of his girlfriend. She was black too and she kinda looked like this new girl he has hooked up with. At least he has better taste than his former teammate Dirk.

Your honor, the defense rests...

 

[Iykeg]

One could argue that Black is more dominant. I personally call people whatever they want to be labeled. In my head, it's a different story. I might see them as whatever I perceive them to be, but how they identify themselves is not my place to say anything.

The one drop rule did come from White Supremacy.

No, one drop of White does not.

In a lot of people "black" does not even dominate at all. Wenworth Miller, Nicole Richie etc are whites basically. That's not to tell people how to identify but a lot of the people labelled black don't resemble anything like anybody in Africa south of the Sahara at all.

If you doubt me just look at the kids from the bm/ww couple thread and compare what they look like to the average African ethnicity .


Also like I mentioned earlier some African ethnic groups have very distinct looks the same way a white person from Ireland could be said to.



I know this because I grew up in an African society and we could usually tell the people who don't look like us apart easily and in virtually all cases though they are half whites.

They are however fully welcome with open arms.


Just pointing out the misnomer. Nick Cannon and Mariah look more like an "interracial" couple to me than Mariah and her first husband.

The self identification thing would be ok I guess but it would still be confusing as hell

 

[orejon4]

Well said.

LOL, well said bro.

Isn't it a well known fact that many African Americans are mixed with Caucasian or Native American.

Its just the old racist system in the U.S. either typecast people as white = good, black = bad, employing dumb down racial categories for purposes of division and separation.

African Americans come in many tones, hell Africans do as well and I'm not even talking about North Africans but Sub-Saharan Africa.

Surely we can't forget how many of those white slave owners had their way with black women. How do we think all the light skinned blacks exist, they weren't bleaching that's for sure.

I so agree with the Hispanic point as well, there are Hispanics with mostly African ancestry or mostly White ancestry or mostly Native Amerindian ancestry or a mixture of those to varying degrees. Hispanic implies more of a culture than any racial type.

If you go to Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, etc. you will see people who look black, white, native Indian or a combination, its just that they speak Spanish and that is their culture, same applies in Brazil with Portuguese being spoken instead.

Time to nominate Jamal and GQ as WWBM.com official spokesmen.

 

[orejon4]

Uh oh...here comes the Main Event

LOL

 

[Iykeg]

She looks black to me, albeit not full-blooded Yoruba, lol. I would have thought black Latina (PR, Venezuela, Colombia, DR, Cuba), with African, indigenous and Iberian blood, all 'swirled' together. Hair's wavy, round nose, full lips.

I hate the one-drop rule too, but it's the one in use in the US and most Anglophone countries. But there's only 3 true racial subgroups (Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid...everything else is a hybrid of the primary three) and only 1 true race: the human race. There, I'm through sounding naive.

That's not true at all.

One drop was imposed through white supremacy but the funnier aspect seems to be that black people in America seem to be the ones insisting on it.

I've not seen people like Ryan Giggs or Jane Goody referd to as black before. Infact media in many countries talk about mixed race couples giving birth to white and black kids. The white looking kids are called white even though their parent is called black

 

[orejon4]

In a lot of people "black" does not even dominate at all. Wenworth Miller, Nicole Richie etc are whites basically. That's not to tell people how to identify but a lot of the people labelled black don't resemble anything like anybody in Africa south of the Sahara at all.

If you doubt me just look at the kids from the bm/ww couple thread and compare what they look like to the average African ethnicity .


Also like I mentioned earlier some African ethnic groups have very distinct looks the same way a white person from Ireland could be said to.



I know this because I grew up in an African society and we could usually tell the people who don't look like us apart easily and in virtually all cases though they are half whites.

They are however fully welcome with open arms.


Just pointing out the misnomer. Nick Cannon and Mariah look more like an "interracial" couple to me than Mariah and her first husband.

The self identification thing would be ok I guess but it would still be confusing as hell

Disagree with a lot of the statement about variety in African phenotypes. They do in fact exist, and not solely because of white ancestry. Bantu vs. Hamitic/Cushitic, (i.e. Yoruba don't look like Amhara) Hutu and Tutsi often share different features, Berber are not Arabs, Zulu vs Xhosa or Kung, the Malagasy and on and on... My buddy from Nigeria can tell the difference between his ethnic group and people from nearby Ghana, Guinea and other West African societies.

I think some black people buy into a reductionist view of what Africa and African ancestry means as much as some whites.

 

[Iykeg]

She looks black to me, albeit not full-blooded Yoruba, lol. I would have thought black Latina (PR, Venezuela, Colombia, DR, Cuba), with African, indigenous and Iberian blood, all 'swirled' together. Hair's wavy, round nose, full lips.

I hate the one-drop rule too, but it's the one in use in the US and most Anglophone countries. But there's only 3 true racial subgroups (Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid...everything else is a hybrid of the primary three) and only 1 true race: the human race. There, I'm through sounding naive.

This particular lady does not even look like people I grew up around. Why should I think she "looks like me" at all in any shape or form.


You might not know this but the average African can tell a mixed person who does not look like them as quickly apart as the average European can tell who is mixed around them.



People in America are used to calling people who the majority of their ancestry is not even from Africa black so I guess you might be used to it

 

[Iykeg]

Disagree with a lot of the statement about variety in African phenotypes. They do in fact exist, and not solely because of white ancestry. Bantu vs. Hamitic/Cushitic, (i.e. Yoruba don't look like Amhara) Hutu and Tutsi often share different features, Berber are not Arabs, Zulu vs Xhosa or Kung, the Malagasy and on and on... My buddy from Nigeria can tell the difference between his ethnic group and people from nearby Ghana, Guinea and other West African societies.

I think some black people buy into a reductionist view of what Africa and African ancestry means as much as some whites.

The Berbers are whites even though they are mixed with black in some cases.

And your post validates my point. Why would I even imagine that a person that is 75% white for example looks like me when I can actually tell the difference between ethnicities. A Yoruba man would easily be pointed out in an Amhara society because those Amharas don't think he looks like them


Why would they now imagine that somebody like Mariah Carey or Nicole Richie looks like them in any form or fashion?

 

[orejon4]

That's not true at all.

One drop was imposed through white supremacy but the funnier aspect seems to be that black people in America seem to be the ones insisting on it.

I've not seen people like Ryan Giggs or Jane Goody referd to as black before. Infact media in many countries talk about mixed race couples giving birth to white and black kids. The white looking kids are called white even though their parent is called black

I never said in my statements that the one-drop rule was NOT the product of white supremacy. It is. No one is arguing that children of mixed-race parentage are ALL black. But in this country, which uses absolutist racial definitions, lack of 'purity' - meaning a deviation from the Northern European/Anglo-Saxon ideal gets you labeled as 'something other than'. In early US history, Sicilians, Arabs and most Mediterranean stock people were treated at least initially as an intermediary group between white and black until they were allowed to assimilate over a generation or two. In most of the European countries I am familiar with, a mixed-race child is referred to as mixed race regardless of how pale or dark they are.

 

[orejon4]

The Berbers are whites even though they are mixed with black in some cases.

And your post validates my point. Why would I even imagine that a person that is 75% white for example looks like me when I can actually tell the difference between ethnicities. A Yoruba man would easily be pointed out in an Amhara society because those Amharas don't think he looks like them


Why would they now imagine that somebody like Mariah Carey or Nicole Richie looks like them in any form or fashion?

My post does not validate your point. You stated that the view that there is a variety of phenotypes among Africans is a US invention. I was using these examples to show that there are, in fact, all-African contexts in which there is a variety of phenotypes. Not all black variety is due to white ancestry.

Berbers are not predominately white. The white genes come from the period of the Vandal invasion of North Africa after the fall of Rome. The indigenous ("full-blooded") Berbers are the Tamazight nomads, not the Vandal/Berber/Arab/French stock that constitutes the masses of many of the societies in the Maghreb.

 

[Iykeg]

I never said in my statements that the one-drop rule was NOT the product of white supremacy. It is. No one is arguing that children of mixed-race parentage are ALL black. But in this country, which uses absolutist racial definitions, lack of 'purity' - meaning a deviation from the Northern European/Anglo-Saxon ideal gets you labeled as 'something other than'. In early US history, Sicilians, Arabs and most Mediterranean stock people were treated at least initially as an intermediary group between white and black until they were allowed to assimilate over a generation or two. In most of the European countries I am familiar with, a mixed-race child is referred to as mixed race regardless of how pale or dark they are.

I understand that. I was trying to make a point.

An Ethnic Somali for example can tell the difference between himself and an Igbo man from Nigeria in a heartbeat.

This is primarily due to the fact that he knows that the person does not look like him. So how is he going to look at a person who is 75% white for example and even think the person looks close to him at all?

He can tell the difference the same way a white person can tell the difference between a half white/half black and himself


I was just saying that Americans are used to the system of identifying people.


The lady in question here does not look like people I grew up around. The statements made above were based mainly on an American experience

 

[Iykeg]

My post does not validate your point. You stated that the view that there is a variety of phenotypes among Africans is a US invention. I was using these examples to show that there are, in fact, all-African contexts in which there is a variety of phenotypes. Not all black variety is due to white ancestry.

Berbers are not predominately white. The white genes come from the period of the Vandal invasion of North Africa after the fall of Rome. The indigenous ("full-blooded") Berbers are the Tamazight nomads, not the Vandal/Berber/Arab/French stock that constitutes the masses of many of the societies in the Maghreb.

That's not true at all. The Amazaghi people are very white and not black at all. You can check their haplotype. It's very African also

 

[orejon4]

Time for Puerto Rico to shed a little light

There's a great statement used in Puerto Rico for people who attempt to deny their African genetic past simply because they are fair-skinned or have straight hair:

"Y tu abuela, donde esta?" meaning "And your grandmother, where is she?" because in the early period of post-Columbus conquest, everyone was clearly more racially distinct. The fact that almost everyone no longer looks like a clear racial archetype is a clear indicator that EVERYONE IS MIXED WITH EVERYTHING. So they recognize their black ancestry even when they're not blue-black.

 

[Iykeg]

There's a great statement used in Puerto Rico for people who attempt to deny their African genetic past simply because they are fair-skinned or have straight hair:

"Y tu abuela, donde esta?" meaning "And your grandmother, where is she?" because in the early period of post-Columbus conquest, everyone was clearly more racially distinct. The fact that almost everyone no longer looks like a clear racial archetype is a clear indicator that EVERYONE IS MIXED WITH EVERYTHING. So they recognize their black ancestry even when they're not blue-black.

Define "black"?



And those people are actually denying their white ancestry when they refuse to recognize the place where the majority of their ancestry came from which is Europe



Why would somebody of majority European descent who does not even look like a sub-Saharan African deny his European heritage?

 

[orejon4]

That's not true at all. The Amazaghi people are very white and not black at all. You can check their haplotype. It's very African also

They are an Afro-asiatic people. Period.

The presence of European blood, present since about 400AD, stems from various population incursions throughout history. The root of the language is the clearest indication of the root of the people as it indicates ancient origins regardless of historical vagaries due to war, assimilation of other groups, population movement and the like. Again, they are not sub-saharan or Bantu blacks, but they are in fact indigenous Africans and represent an intermediate point along the racial continuum between 'pure' black and 'pure' white.

Thanks for the debate and discussion.

 

[Iykeg]

My post does not validate your point. You stated that the view that there is a variety of phenotypes among Africans is a US invention. I was using these examples to show that there are, in fact, all-African contexts in which there is a variety of phenotypes. Not all black variety is due to white ancestry.

Berbers are not predominately white. The white genes come from the period of the Vandal invasion of North Africa after the fall of Rome. The indigenous ("full-blooded") Berbers are the Tamazight nomads, not the Vandal/Berber/Arab/French stock that constitutes the masses of many of the societies in the Maghreb.

Berbers are predominantly white Africans


You have some black ones like the Tuaregs etc



In reality, there is nonsuch thing like A white or black race at all. White/black are all social descriptions

 

[Iykeg]

They are an Afro-asiatic people. Period.

The presence of European blood, present since about 400AD, stems from various population incursions throughout history. The root of the language is the clearest indication of the root of the people as it indicates ancient origins regardless of historical vagaries due to war, assimilation of other groups, population movement and the like.

Thanks for the debate and discussion.

Languages like Hausa and plenty of African languages in sub-Saharan Africa are Afro-Asiatic so you are actually confusing yourself