I agree with you completely that it is meaningless. that was my point in the first place
But why then do people on this website have 100 pages of arguments over something that is completely meaningless then?
Steve Nash Double Swirling Gone Wrong!!
- Thread starter nobledruali
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I agree with you completely that it is meaningless. that was my point in the first place
But why then do people on this website have 100 pages of arguments over something that is completely meaningless then?
flaminghetero
Well-Known Member
:smt038
It's interesting when I think about my own situation & how people have viewed my son over the years. I have never had anyone white refer to my son as white (except for a cop a few months ago who put his race as white on the ticket, lol). Maybe it's a southern thing, but the very thought of calling my son white seems to piss white folks off, & they made it clear over the years in not so pleasant terms that they see him as black & that calling him white would be like blasphemy or something. If they were trying to insult my son or me by calling him black, they failed. Down south many seem to hang on to the "one drop rule", because they don't like the idea of tainted white blood destroying the "purity" of the white race. On rare occasions I've also had black people make similar comments, insisting my son isn't black because he has white in him, but overall the black community has been more accepting of my son. The whole one drop issue is bullshit because there is no such thing as a pure race other than being purely human.
As far as your collegues & the convo about the story you referred to, unless they are close, personal friends, I would take the things they say to you or in front of you with a grain of salt. Often the conversation takes a different direction when people don't feel the need to watch what they say. It makes me think of the episode of SNL with Eddie Murphy going undercover pretending to be a white man to see how white people behave when there are no black people around, lol.
What I don't understand is why you keep referring to the black men on the forum as those who "called themselves 'black'". Why do you deem them not black enough to be "black"? Why do you have such a problem with them?
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Because its the parameters in which exist at this point in history. Racial definition is woven into the American fabric I don't get why you're so surprised.
orejon4
Well-Known Member
I agree that it's bull. However, that's the law in this country and I think people are just acknowledging its existence, not saying we approve of it.
orejon4
Well-Known Member
Mr. Fantastic, you're totally right about this being a tactic of racial divisiveness to keep working class people separated based on race rather than having any class consciousness. And in Latin America it's the exact opposite of the one-drop rule. I have seen people as dark as the ace of spades talking about being white, because the stigma of being black or indigenous has people claiming their great-grandfather's Spanish-ness makes them white, etc. In the Latin American context being mulatto or an 1/8 or whatever is a real social caste, mostly because Latin America has not gone through a racial consciousness movement, as the black community has in Anglophone countries, and differences between Spaniards/Portuguese and English colonization patterns.
In my experience, because Spaniards are themselves a hybrid of several strains of Europeans, Arabs, Berbers and Africans, they are generally far less obsessed about racial 'purity' than people from Northern Europe. They wouldn't stare at a fair-skinned person with curly hair trying to racially classify them because many of them have curly hair and dark skin. Doesn't mean for a minute that racism doesn't exist there, it most definitely does. But it's just not the type that you see in the US and some northern European societies.
Makes for some interesting conversations with relatives from PR and my ex's family, when contrasted with my US-born view.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Its incredibly sad because only give a shit because the darker you are the more your held back. I have to give it to the wealthy they truly figured out a way to keep the ignorant and oppressed arguing amongst themselves.
My parents are from Jamaica and when any of the family from there here's that I'm dating ww its like to them I've truly arrived to the land of milk and honey. Its fucking sad but despite what the educated few feel about race the uneducated need to be onboard to change anything.
I understand you Tammy. There are some ignorant people around
But the conversation I told you about did not even involve me. I overheard them gathered together around a computer when a collegue came accross the story. They were all excited at the thought of having a biological black twin.
they thought that was probably the coolest thing ever and how puzzling people would be so much fun.
Some of them actually refered to Nicole Ritchie as white too when talking about her
Your Kid might be a little darker than the average "white" person but if your kid looked like that blond kid in the picture I posted above or looks like Ben Harpers kids with Laura Dern, they would be seen as white kids even by white southerners
(with regards to why I refer to those people as people who identify as black, I was just contrasting the responses of people who identified as black with those of the people who identified as white. It was only the people who identified as black that were insisting on the one drop rule. If you click on my link, you would see it)
It might be due to the fact that people like Ryan Giggs and Wenworth Miller are actually more white looking than the average Iberian
So I dont see why they would percieve them as anything else other than white
About to be done with this debate but I wanted you to note this
It doesnt even matter if it is Fox News or any other American news stations. They refer to white looking Children of black people as white
Fox news
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/07/21/white-baby-born-black-parents-genetic-test/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474388,00.html
CBS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTVvmT2bioo
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20011175-10391704.html
ABC
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/twins-white-black-born-biracial-parents-stirs-issues/story?id=12984334
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1813509
the examples are quite endless
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
You're definitely not from the US with this statement. Have you heard of the term passing?
Many "african americans" who could pass for white in the early to mid 20th century would move away to places where no one knew them or their family for fear of being classified black even if they looked white. Especially in the south. You could be as white as Liv Tyler but let them find out your grand daddy is black then you're damaged goods my friend.
swirlman07
Well-Known Member
I think that it's agreed, the concept of race is nebulous as there's no pure race in the U.S. The case is more stark here because of the effect of slavery and the intermixing of races. I have known several families throughout my life that have children that have features that might be considered as Caucasian, but both parents are obviously Black. How many people think of Vanessa Williams or Smokey Robinson as white? Both have Black parents but many Whites, if they didn't know, might consider them White. I remember my ex, who was from Spain, telling me that Johnny Mathis couldn't be Black, that he was Venezuelan.
I have seen Pakistanis who appeared to be Black, dark skin, short curly hair, less keen noses, and in Europe they would identity them as Black as well. But, does that make them less Asian? I'm sure that Japense or Chinese would mis-identify the race of people with darker skin as well, regardless of other facial features, because of their assumptions about race and skin color.
The point is that people, all over the world, attach labels to people based on their sense of what features comprise a certain race. These assumptions may or may not be correct. It doesn't make it right or wrong. It's just a fact.
I have seen Pakistanis who appeared to be Black, dark skin, short curly hair, less keen noses, and in Europe they would identity them as Black as well. But, does that make them less Asian? I'm sure that Japense or Chinese would mis-identify the race of people with darker skin as well, regardless of other facial features, because of their assumptions about race and skin color.
The point is that people, all over the world, attach labels to people based on their sense of what features comprise a certain race. These assumptions may or may not be correct. It doesn't make it right or wrong. It's just a fact.
orejon4
Well-Known Member
Another funny thing is how my ex from Spain had to learn to adapt to the white US way of seeing things. She was shocked to find that there is no recognition of being a 'mulato' or biracial as there is in Spanish-speaking countries, and irritated when people called our son 'black'. White Americans were quick to straighten her out, several going so far as to tell her she wasn't white! She was called Mexican, half-breed, everything under the sun.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
I'm just saying.
And I have to say you dont have much idea of places around the world.
in my country, some ethnic groups up until recently had a caste system that forbade the general society from marrying or interracting with a certain caste of outcasts. if you married them, your offsprings with them would become an outcaste like them forever
this caste system just unwinded recently and was fuelled by ignorance. It was also in use much longer than the United States existed.
But just because our ancestors insisted on that caste system and that it shapped their lives does not mean that we have to do the same
it would even be more bizzare to insist that we must abide by that like i see some people doing on here with the "one drop" thing
orejon4
Well-Known Member
I hear you. I wouldn't consider Vanessa and Smokey white, because when I think white I think Nordic. My ex didn't consider herself 'white' per se, because she thought of herself as a hybrid of Iberian/Arab etc, but she was thought of as white by most white Americans on sight until they heard where she was from. But a lot of people get tripped up trying to classify people for their own comfort level.
All my life before I got to the US, I always thought of Venessa and Smokey as white from a physical viewpoint
. (not to talk of people like Mariah and Nicole)One girl whos dad is from my country married a White woman here in the US.
When they travelled to his hometown, this girl(who was half white/half black) was called white throughout
The villagers joked with the dad about how his wife had a child that looked 100% like her and nothing like him
She was shocked because in North America, she was considered a Black woman by most people
now most people on her dads side thought she was just as white as her mom and couldnt tell the difference between both of them
swirlman07
Well-Known Member
From one Barcelona fan to another, I hear you as well. My ex considered herself white, lol, but when she got to the U.S. she was considered Hispanic, lol. She also told me that my father didn't "look" Black, but I know that it was her perception based on race as well. Go Barcelona!!!