unarmed WM killed by police in Iowa...no one cares
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RaiderLL
Well-Known Member
Check, check and check. We live in a gated community, security, everything but it's still something I worry about. The guns in the house, in all likelihood, won't help us though. It seems like the majority of states don't have firearm storage requirements which seems crazy to me.
shaft2k4
Active Member
Is gun violence really increasing? Or is it on the decline?
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...gun-violence-has-fallen-since-1993-study-says
"Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation's population grew," according to the Pew study. "The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993."
All of that is good news — but many Americans don't seem to be aware of it. In a survey, the Pew Research Center found that only 12 percent of Americans believe the gun crime rate is lower today than it was in 1993; 56 percent believe it's higher.
In an effort to explain that finding, the Pew researchers noted that while mass shootings are rare, they capture public interest and are often viewed as touchstone events that help define they year in which the crimes occur. As examples, they cite three shootings in the past two years, in Tucson, Ariz.; Aurora, Colo.; and in Newtown, Conn.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...gun-violence-has-fallen-since-1993-study-says
"Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation's population grew," according to the Pew study. "The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993."
All of that is good news — but many Americans don't seem to be aware of it. In a survey, the Pew Research Center found that only 12 percent of Americans believe the gun crime rate is lower today than it was in 1993; 56 percent believe it's higher.
In an effort to explain that finding, the Pew researchers noted that while mass shootings are rare, they capture public interest and are often viewed as touchstone events that help define they year in which the crimes occur. As examples, they cite three shootings in the past two years, in Tucson, Ariz.; Aurora, Colo.; and in Newtown, Conn.
Archman
Well-Known Member
Every time there is a high-profile violent gun crime, particularly across racial lines, statistics show that the concern and fear drives-up gun and bullet sales, even spikes in sales to first time gun owners..........now in light of the fact that police around the country are being asked to stand-down, to be less aggressive, more sensitive........A better question for you shaft2k4 is: what social group in society is causing record numbers people to feel for the first time that they need to take-up arms..........
shaft2k4
Active Member
One reason for this is how the market works. A couple years ago when the Sandy Hook incident happened, there were cries to ban AR15s. Right after that the shelves were empty of AR15's and stores were price gouging. A 700 dollar rifle would cost 1500 dollars. When ATF tried to ban a certain type of ammo a few months ago the same thing happened. A rush on that type of ammunition. The value of the ammo skyrocketed. In this way, gun buying is like stock market sentiment.
The more gun controllers push, the more people who already own will buy more, and the more fence sitters will decide to buy before the window closes so to speak.
There is also the perception that society is declining, and one can't really depend on the cops to magically teleport in to save your ass while you're being assaulted.
andreboba
Well-Known Member
People forget we had an assault weapon ban in the 1990s and American society didn't collapse.
The gun lobby is really doing a head job on gun owners/gun enthusiasts.
It's all about their bottom line not 2nd Amendment rights; selling more guns.
It makes no comprehensible sense there are over 300+ firearms owned in America and that number is a low estimate.
Bookworm616
Well-Known Member
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
What powers are being preserved in modern America with gun ownership other than the ability to kill other civilians or yourself? The only British at our shores are boy bands and American bitches are eager to suck their dicks not shoot them.
Get the fuck out of here with your outdated quotes.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
I am still waiting to see a single stat that supports the idea that owning legal guns is the problem and not this bs drug war. If you want to see gun violence essentially disappear over night legalize drugs, the vast majority of these shootings and killings are about territory but lets keep bold face lying that what's creating the problem is some guy buying a shotgun from Walmart
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
So basically since you're scared of having a gun absolutely no one should have them except for criminals right?
andreboba
Well-Known Member
You know that entire 'guns=liberty' meme is not-so-secretly being pushed by the gun lobby??
Those quotes from the 18th and 19th century were relevant for a different time in America and now are just another form of political propaganda.
Pay attention instead to 20th century history.
It's hard as hell to overturn a dictatorship with only guns when your enemy has the full resources of the federal government and the military.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Agreed but that's not where the argument should be focused. If the problem is gun violence how does removing guns from law abiding citizens make things better since criminals get guns by illegal means.
That's like saying we have a problem with drunk driving so now no one should drive.
andreboba
Well-Known Member
More like we have a problem with drunk driving, so no one is allowed to consume alcohol.
If the standard is until criminals don't have access to guns, everyone should be allowed to own as many as they want is a pointless argument.
Crime is forever.
But we should all agree that guns shouldn't be so readily accessible and legal purchases should require a basic background check.
Criminals steal guns that were bought legally to commit crimes, so reducing the amount of guns in general on the streets, legally and illegally, is for the public good.
shaft2k4
Active Member
It'd be a lot harder trying to outbox that dictatorship with your bare hands i'd say.
At any rate, you can expect factions of the military to defect should they be ordered to turn on their own citizens.
archangel
Well-Known Member
I just want to point out the shooting in Harris county is another one of the mentally ill gettign guns again adn again and agian and again:smt012
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/slaying-suburban-houston-sheriffs-deputy-33440592
Miles also spent time in a mental hospital following a 2012 arrest. He was found to be mentally incompetent after being charged in 2012 with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, according to Joe Frederick, a prosecutor in Travis County, which includes Austin.
I know living in Harris County. there is no help for the mentally ill along with ease brought a downfall for this officer. Had it not been this officer, it would have been someone else.
There has to be laws placed in on who can and cannot get a gun based on mental health.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/slaying-suburban-houston-sheriffs-deputy-33440592
Miles also spent time in a mental hospital following a 2012 arrest. He was found to be mentally incompetent after being charged in 2012 with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, according to Joe Frederick, a prosecutor in Travis County, which includes Austin.
I know living in Harris County. there is no help for the mentally ill along with ease brought a downfall for this officer. Had it not been this officer, it would have been someone else.
There has to be laws placed in on who can and cannot get a gun based on mental health.
archangel
Well-Known Member
out of curiosity, do you own a gun?
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Yup
Archman
Well-Known Member
Good grief archangel,
the gun was only the instrument in the officers killing, Not the killer...For what ever hate motive he had for killing the "White Officer", the same damage could have been accomplished with a full swing baseball bat to back of the head......the same detestation that drove him to stand over the downed officer and empty the clip could have been accomplished in continuing to bash the down officer in the head with a bat.....We cannot divert from the fact that Miles wanted a "White Officer" dead at all cost..........even if he did not have a gun, he could have still succeeded in killing.........Guns at rest don't kill,---- people pick them up, point them and pull triggers and kill other people.....
archangel
Well-Known Member
Let me be more clear. People who are not mentally stable should not have killing devices. I spoke about guns in this incident because this was what he used. What James Holmes used. what adam lanza used. This is not a race issue. It is a mental health issue that america continues to ignore.
Bug
Well-Known Member
I have posted this already, but here you go.
In the United Kingdom, access by the general public to firearms is tightly controlled by law, although this is less restrictive in Northern Ireland. The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world.[1] There were 0.05 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in the five years to 2011 (15 to 38 people per annum)
Very few other places actually don't allow people to have a gun, even Brazil and Mexico who you quoted earlier allows the general public to have a gun.
But I found South Korea which seems to have very strict rules around firearms.
South Korea[edit]
South Korea has one of the most restrictive gun policies in the developed world. Hunting and sporting licenses are issued, but any firearm used in these circumstances must be stored at a local police station. Violation of firearms law can result in a $(US)18,000 fine and up to 10 years in prison.
Despite the strict regulations, the vast majority of South Korean males are well trained in the use of firearms, due to the mandatory military service required of all male citizens.[63]
While private firearm ownership in South Korea is exceptionally rare, there have been notable instances of firearm-related mass casualty incidents, most notably the Uiryeong massacre, which was the deadliest lone-gunman massacre until the 2011 Norway attacks. Despite this, gun culture is notably absent in South Korean society outside of the military and police, and gun ownership and deaths rank amongst the lowest in the world.[64][65]
Australia
Australia[edit]
This section needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (February 2015)
Main article: Gun politics in Australia
Firearm laws in Australia are enforced at a Federal (via customs controls)[citation needed] and State level (all other forms of control). Gun ownership is accessible to the civilian population, and owners must comply with 'genuine reasons' to obtain a Permit to Acquire from their State government. For rifles, genuine reasons focus on either hunting and/or sport/target shooting, and do not include personal protection. Handgun licenses are also available, and applied for separately. In New South Wales, and similarly in other states, firearm ownership is widely prohibited for convicted offenders or those with a history of mental illness. Gun licenses must be renewed either annually or every 5 years, and expire automatically if not renewed.
Firearm control was in place prior to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre. However, in its aftermath the major political parties implemented additional and extensive gun-control legislation, this fueled the development of parties such as the New South Wales Shooters Party, which represent deregulation.[citation needed]
In 1996, then Australian Prime Minister, John Howard personally drove through legislation restricting a variety of firearm classes including semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, pump action shotguns holding more than 5 rounds (in some states). Knives, pocket knives and lasers over one milliwatt are classed as weapons in most parts of Australia.[citation needed] The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides in Australia dropped 59 percent between 1995 and 2006. In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers.[133]
There are some figures for you.
Now you bring me some figures to prove how personal gun ownership improves the safety of your fellow Americans, how many people (numbers please) are saved every year by keeping personal firearms.
Where they have prevented injury to the owner of the legal firearm, in real live threat situations, not would have... could have happened.