Wait why can't we have free college?

[medullaslashin]

A professor can make a video for each class followed by mandatory discussions online and make taking tests on campus mandatory to reduce cheating. Education isn't finite.

Yep -- technology is one thing that could make education (and career training) easily more affordable & democratic.

But come hell or high water, the "conservatives" will continue to cockblock.

 

[medullaslashin]

What "Trump route"? Explain.

Trump is for school vouchers, Obama was against them.

Trump wants to allocate $20 billion towards vouchers and ask States to contribute additional funds, allowing the distribution of them to their primarily disadvantaged kids.

He's for them because most poor and children of color using vouchers have shown academic improvement when given school choice.
How is that bad for our future?

I've heard reports saying data shows that performance-wise voucher programs are a mixed bag.

 

[medullaslashin]

Deceiving Americans doesn't require smarts, it's requires only the ability to lie and prey on people's weaknesses and fears without any sense of guilt or remorse. They're sneaky as hell, but not smart. They're most definitely not smart ENOUGH to be in the leadership roles that Trump envisions. Nor do any of them seem to have a shred of care for the citizens of this country. It's shown every day that their intent is to strip us of rights we've fought years to obtain/maintain. Their only interest is in the preservation and betterment of the white male american. Just because they've convinced the underbelly of this country to fall in line with Trumps vision, doesn't mean they're smart. To me it says more about our citizens than it does about fucktard Trump and his clansmen.

Damn! Great post!

I remember an old saying that went something like so: "Smart people have logic and oratory, but stupid people have guile". (If anyone else has heard that saying, please correct me. I'd like to know the original verbatim.)

Anyhoo -- Where conmen like trump have an edge is in stuff like shamelessness, guile and the ability to spot "dupes" and speak to their emotions (fears, resentment, etc.).

What we saw in this election was a "surge" of dupes to the polls.

P.S. -- TDK mentioned that trump managed to flip lots of obama voters... TDK -- don't forget, you didn't have to be a genius to vote for Obama either. A lot of people voted for him because he was new & different & they expected the "magical negro" of him... People get swept up.

 

[K]

- don't forget, you didn't have to be a genius to vote for Obama either. A lot of people voted for him because he was new & different & t

This has been the case for many years. People want something totally different....to the point where we find ourselves where we are now

 

[Bliss]

I've heard reports saying data shows that performance-wise voucher programs are a mixed bag.

The reports l had read showed improvement or no improvement.
So lm for the program that delivers improvement
On a logical basis, choice education is better than forced education.
Parents take back control of where, how and by whom their children are educated. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[K]

I've heard reports saying data shows that performance-wise voucher programs are a mixed bag.

I don't think there is anything wrong with this and it's to be expected. The thing about the programs is they are extremely varied. Everything from a very relaxed "unschooling" approach to homeschooling to military schooling and everything in-between.

The biggest issue with all of this is we don't have a good solid way to evaluate performance in our schools (whatever form they are). Even with the methods that have been in place reflecting need for changes they are ignored or more of the same is done rather than making necessary changes.

The Teacher's Union is a disaster and they do everything possible to stop any form of choice in schooling. They are extremely threatened by it overall as an organization. I find it really interesting as to how many teachers have their children in alternative schooling though.

I just have a tough time understanding why we as a society think that the government would know best as to how and what our children should be learning.

 

[RicardoCooper]

I honestly don't get how we've allowed ourselves to regress to this level of idiocy.

Propagandized far-leftists who have handed us both Bush and Trump in the last 20 years is a good start

 

[Madeleine]

Great post. I think the U.S. would be that utopian society with free education and great healthcare and a great safety net (like some other countries) if we saw ourselves as one people. lol But we don't, & haven't ever.

Like, everybody wants mobility and a safety net for their own family... We all want the best for people we see as "us", not the "other". The people voting against such things are cutting off their nose to spite their face because they think free education et al just might help the "other". ... & they can't let that happen.

Germans can be for great entitlements because they want the best for Germans. ...But what's an "American"?

Don't know if I got you completely right, but what's "German" these days? I am sure you all watched a bit of news and are aware of the huge number of refugees we took in during the past two years. Even before that being "German" has changed a lot of it's meaning over the past 10+ years. If a Syrian gets refugee status he can apply to our universities and study for free. Provided the school leaving certificate is considered equal to German Abitur (difficult) and he passes German at B2 Level (also difficult). Oh and by the way it's not all free, some postgad courses cost, but not as much as in the US. There are degrees taught entirely in English these days, so you can all go, check it out and study here for less;-) I am just letting you all in on a secret...
As for abuse of our social security systems, well that's another story...

 

[Beasty]

 

[andreboba]

This Pakman vid started out funny, became a little sad then ended up being scary as hell.

Personally I think Trump knows how to read, but his reading comprehension of complex or new ideas is nil and his arrogance won't let him admit he has deficits and needs help.

He reminds me of kids in middle school who know how to read but think reading books is boring.

One of the basic skills any president needs is to be a strong reader. After that is basic reading comprehension. So far Trump doesn't seem to have either.
It's strange because I NEVER questioned Dubya's reading skills or comprehension. I just thought he wasn't that bright.

Trump on the other hand appears to be a dangerous combination of intellectual arrogance/laziness, eroding cognitive ability due in part to age, no attention span for detail whatsoever,(which puts even greater reliance on his advisers), and a warped world view that America is being taken over by foreigners and the USA can do no wrong.

Ugh.

No wonder there were millions of Americans who said Trump is 'one of us'. Of course they did because the man is limited upstairs.

It's almost as if Trump has a learning disability.

The obvious lack of any attention span is the one aspect about Trump that scares me the most. That's a recipe for ending up in a global war.

 

[DudeNY12]

Of course the benefit is there but the conservatives that I know certainly don't see it that way. There's no care with many of those people, of future benefits. They prefer immediate, tangible returns on their investment. The difficulty with the concept of free college lies within the greed of our country. I honestly don't see it happening. As sad as it is, this country has no interest in investing in future generations.

Agreed! Those who I know would say some crap about "people wanting free stuff" and so on.

 

[DudeNY12]

As far as the government paying for college educations of for our youth... sure would be a sweet deal and money well invested considering they are the future and who we will depend on tomorrow to continue running this country and upholding/mending/fostering relations with other countries and our allies... the allies that will have left that is. I think the system is set up well also considering higher GPAs get into better schools so there is some sort of checks and balances

As for the military it is a great opportunity to receive a free education yet some people are not in it for the education as G Funk stated; they're in it to learn a trade that would have been much more expensive had they pursued that profession on their own. There are some young men and women who don't have anywhere else to go and are not responsible or mature enough to handle school, some who are left without an option because they cannot afford to go to school.

There are indeed a lot of other benefits such as free healthcare, worldwide travel and experiences, as well as access to government employment and security clearances after just three years of honorable service.

Agreed! I wish we did actually invest in our people, particularly the next generation of adults, but that gets one labelled as "socialist", "lazy" and so on. I'm so tired of my tax dollars giving tax breaks, but not helping those who really need to be helped.

 

[DudeNY12]

A president with a BA and no political or military experience.....also hilarious.

Right. Usually when I hear of someone graduating from Wharton... It's grad school with a MBA. Trump and his people throw out Wharton, but it's my understanding that it's an undergrad education.

 

[DudeNY12]

Vouchers are typical of how con-servatives think. They reward kids with motivated parents while leaving the rest behind. It ends up being survival of the fittest.

Let me explain; Kenny's mom is low income but sge will do whatever it takes to make sure her son gets into a charter school.

Danny's mom doesn't care that much. She's not jumpin through no hoops when he can just go to the school he's been going to. The one with the depleated resources because the motivated parents take their children and tbe money that goes with them, to the charter schools.

Not only that, but if you think a good quality school is going to embrace a slew of low income kids, you have another thought coming. Espessiacially if that school is in the lilly white burbs. They will find some way stop it or at least, thin the numbers down.

There's a better way to do it but no one wants ti spend the money.

I know a bunch of educators from teacher up administrators. I dated a young lady who was a principal, and one thing they all agree on is... Vouchers are a horrible idea in that it simply robs public schools of already inadequate funding, and gives it to the for profit private schools. In DeVos... My understanding is that she has zero experience in education, yet he nominates her to head Dept of Education... It's very sad as we can clearly see which kids will get further shafted. I'm not at all qualified to speak on it, but I'd certainly put my trust in experienced, dedicated professionals who have a vested interest in seeing all children thrive.

I asked a principal about the issue in NJ with Christie equal funding for all schools. Something Christie touted as fair because no child should have any more resources than the next child. My friends said their issue with Chrisitie's action was that it removes funding from some students/schools who may require extra/specialized attention such as special education/learning disabled, and allocates more funding for normal performing students who don't require extra resources.

 

[K]

I know a bunch of educators from teacher up administrators. I dated a young lady who was a principal, and one thing they all agree on is... Vouchers are a horrible idea in that it simply robs public schools of already inadequate funding, and gives it to the for profit private schools. In DeVos... My understanding is that she has zero experience in education, yet he nominates her to head Dept of Education... It's very sad as we can clearly see which kids will get further shafted. I'm not at all qualified to speak on it, but I'd certainly put my trust in experienced, dedicated professionals who have a vested interest in seeing all children thrive.

I asked a principal about the issue in NJ with Christie equal funding for all schools. Something Christie touted as fair because no child should have any more resources than the next child. My friends said their issue with Chrisitie's action was that it removes funding from some students/schools who may require extra/specialized attention such as special education/learning disabled, and allocates more funding for normal performing students who don't require extra resources.

There is so much misinformation out there when it comes Vouchers (Charters, etc). At least here, the district/school of record is still benefiting from that child who ends up going to a different program/school/etc. They don't get the full amount, they get part. But without the charter - they wouldn't be getting any of it. Some of them are smart and are negotiating with the Charters so they are able to bring in extra funds. Many of the "regular" schools in our area have had to step it up and add back in some of the things that were taken out (much of that has happened simply because they finally got smarter about budgeting in their individual districts and schools). There are all sorts of magnet programs now that have a high demand. There are some excellent programs in extremely low income areas. That was not happening prior to charters.

I think the whole private school spin on it that Trump is trying is extreme. Most of us who are supportive of choice/vouchers/charters are not including private (and certainly not religious) schooling. Now, he is.

The charters also don't impact special funding for gifted or low income. Those programs are still implemented and the districts are still benefiting from them. Many of the charter programs simply don't accept these students because they don't have the resources they would need. On the flip side, we have some specific programs that are offering much more for these kids.

I think there are all sorts of things that the average person doesn't realize go on. They need to start following the money and they will see why some groups are so for or against.

Our education system in the US really needs a complete overhaul....but that's not going to be happening any time soon, certainly not while my kids are still in school.

 

[K]

Check and see how many of those teachers up to administrators have their own children in the public schools they are teaching in vs private, charter, magnet programs.

 

[DudeNY12]

Check and see how many of those teachers up to administrators have their own children in the public schools they are teaching in vs private, charter, magnet programs.

Those who I know have their children in the same public systems they're working in.

 

[Beasty]

This Pakman vid started out funny, became a little sad then ended up being scary as hell.

Personally I think Trump knows how to read, but his reading comprehension of complex or new ideas is nil and his arrogance won't let him admit he has deficits and needs help.

He reminds me of kids in middle school who know how to read but think reading books is boring.

One of the basic skills any president needs is to be a strong reader. After that is basic reading comprehension. So far Trump doesn't seem to have either.
It's strange because I NEVER questioned Dubya's reading skills or comprehension. I just thought he wasn't that bright.

Trump on the other hand appears to be a dangerous combination of intellectual arrogance/laziness, eroding cognitive ability due in part to age, no attention span for detail whatsoever,(which puts even greater reliance on his advisers), and a warped world view that America is being taken over by foreigners and the USA can do no wrong.

Ugh.

No wonder there were millions of Americans who said Trump is 'one of us'. Of course they did because the man is limited upstairs.

It's almost as if Trump has a learning disability.

The obvious lack of any attention span is the one aspect about Trump that scares me the most. That's a recipe for ending up in a global war.

George W Bush isn't bright but he's far ahead of Trump. Start the video at 13 seconds in.

 

[Beasty]

Omg.....I'm reading about Trump University and it's killing me.....lmao. People paid 35,000 to go to a "University" that not only did not have degree programs or accreditation, they didn't even grade the "students" lol. One student refered to himself accurately as a customer. That's a better description. They weren't even students they were just customers....omg.

I'm going to hell for laughing at stupid people. Lololololol

I don't think they deserve a dime. Any knowledge that Trump has is tacit knowledge, that can't be taught. You go to college for explicit knowledge. Trump only has a BA so obviously he lacks explict knowledge.

No sympathy for stupid people, they don't deserve a dime.

 

[The Dark King]

Omg.....I'm reading about Trump University and it's killing me.....lmao. People paid 35,000 to go to a "University" that not only did not have degree programs or accreditation, they didn't even grade the "students" lol. One student refered to himself accurately as a customer. That's a better description. They weren't even students they were just customers....omg.

I'm going to hell for laughing at stupid people. Lololololol

I don't think they deserve a dime. Any knowledge that Trump has is tacit knowledge, that can't be taught. You go to college for explicit knowledge. Trump only has a BA so obviously he lacks explict knowledge.

No sympathy for stupid people, they don't deserve a dime.

Trump went to Wharton that's grad school fam. Obviously bought his way in though.

Well it's funny until happens to you or a loved one. It was predatory fam. That's why we have regulations, so the wolves don't rape the sheep.