Wait why can't we have free college?

The Dark King said:
Trump went to Wharton that's grad school fam. Obviously bought his way in though.

Well it's funny until happens to you or a loved one. It was predatory fam. That's why we have regulations, so the wolves don't rape the sheep.
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Trump only has a BA. but believe what you want. I have some degenerates in my family, but none of them are stupid. We don't have the stupid gene. So it won't happen to them.
 
Beasty said:
Trump only has a BA. but believe what you want. I have some degenerates in my family, but none of them are stupid. We don't have the stupid gene. So it won't happen to them.
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I stand corrected on the BA thing.... well actually a B.S. but a bachelor's none the less.
So since it won't be you or anyone you know it's ok? How conservative of you lol
 
The Dark King said:
I stand corrected on the BA thing.... well actually a B.S. but a bachelor's none the less.
So since it won't be you or anyone you know it's ok? How conservative of you lol
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If they don't even grade the students. Riddle me this Einstein. How the fuck do they care or even know if anyone is learning??

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At some point people do have to take some responsibility for their own existence. It's just like the people who get eaten by Lions. It's a figgin Lion, what did you expect??
 
Beasty said:
If they don't even grade the students. Riddle me this Einstein. How the fuck do they care or even know if anyone is learning??

16035948.jpg

At some point people do have to take some responsibility for their own existence. It's just like the people who get eaten by Lions. It's a figgin Lion, what did you expect??
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By that logic if banks steal our money we had it coming because look what happened 10 years ago?
There's an assumed public trust. Don't prey on the week it's unethical.
 
The Dark King said:
By that logic if banks steal our money we had it coming because look what happened 10 years ago?
There's an assumed public trust. Don't prey on the week it's unethical.
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There are laws against predatory lending. You are oversimplifying that example.

On the other hand would you put your money in a bank that's not FDIC certified? That would be an equivalent comparison. Predatory lending is a false equivalence.
 
Beasty said:
There are laws against predatory lending. You are oversimplifying that example.

On the other hand would you put your money in a bank that's not FDIC certified? That would be an equivalent comparison. Predatory lending is a false equivalence.
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Pension funds arent insured neither are 401ks
If I trust a financial institution and they swindle me out of the money I had it coming? Again there is an assumed public trust. Expecting an institution not to screw you isn't dumb but I get it you lean towards self reliance and every man for himself.
 
The Dark King said:
Pension funds arent insured neither are 401ks
If I trust a financial institution and they swindle me out of the money I had it coming? Again there is an assumed public trust. Expecting an institution not to screw you isn't dumb but I get it you lean towards self reliance and every man for himself.
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Good Lord. Companies like Enron screwed pension funds with accounting fraud banks didn't do that...lol

Bliss come back and entertain this guy...lol.
 
The Dark King said:
Where did I say banks screwed people out of pensions. Never mind you got it
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Accounting is a system and a language. Most people don't even know proper English let alone a second language.

So you are really trying to equate this to people being screwed because CEO's manipulated a language that most people don't even know to begin with? You really comparing a lack of common sense to that?

You miss Bliss?
 
Madeleine said:
Don't know if I got you completely right, but what's "German" these days? I am sure you all watched a bit of news and are aware of the huge number of refugees we took in during the past two years. Even before that being "German" has changed a lot of it's meaning over the past 10+ years. If a Syrian gets refugee status he can apply to our universities and study for free. Provided the school leaving certificate is considered equal to German Abitur (difficult) and he passes German at B2 Level (also difficult). Oh and by the way it's not all free, some postgad courses cost, but not as much as in the US. There are degrees taught entirely in English these days, so you can all go, check it out and study here for less;-) I am just letting you all in on a secret...
As for abuse of our social security systems, well that's another story...
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My point is that because our society is diverse, people will resist entitlements. They resent the idea of providing stuff like education and health care to people they don't consider "their own".

I think germany's system of entitlements came about before there was an influx of immigrants. And now that there is, true to form, people are beginning to question that system.
 
medullaslashin said:
I'm not gonna pretend I'm well versed in the topic, but if charter schools aren't reliably performing better than "public" schools, why move to that system?
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It's just not that simple. First, we really don't have a strong valid way of evaluating in our schools. One of the biggest issues we have is the so called experts can't even begin to agree as to the best ways to evaluate students, teachers, or schools. So, very much like quoting studies....we could easily *prove* that either is better or worse. The validity and reliability of the evidence would be suspect. We've known for many years that children learn in many different ways and the antiquated classroom that was designed for a different time is not producing the results we need or want. While we know this, the ability to change the traditional classroom is difficult and extremely limited. Even if you have a really creative teacher, he/she is very limited in what they are able to do in a traditional public classroom. Magnet, charter, vouchers are all about doing things in a different way. Maybe they focus on different things (art, music, math, engineering, etc), they may have a different structure (distance learning, multi-dimensional learning, combination, homeschooling, focused specialty programs, etc).

The bottom line is the system that we have is not working well, we know that. We've known that for many years. So then we try more of the same earlier - still doesn't work. We try to do all sorts of things within that system....not working. We need to change the system. Families have demanded something different and there are enough of them out there who are willing to do what it takes to make the changes they want to see.

Let's think about this, why would people be against parents choosing what they feel is the best education for their children? Why would we think that our government is better able to determine that for us?

As with all things, follow the money trail.

So getting back to your question.....it's sortof like comparing apples to oranges. Are we going to compare ALL public schools performances to ALL of Charter schools? If and when that actually happens, I think people will be very surprised.
 
K said:
It's just not that simple. First, we really don't have a strong valid way of evaluating in our schools. One of the biggest issues we have is the so called experts can't even begin to agree as to the best ways to evaluate students, teachers, or schools. So, very much like quoting studies....we could easily *prove* that either is better or worse. The validity and reliability of the evidence would be suspect. We've known for many years that children learn in many different ways and the antiquated classroom that was designed for a different time is not producing the results we need or want. While we know this, the ability to change the traditional classroom is difficult and extremely limited. Even if you have a really creative teacher, he/she is very limited in what they are able to do in a traditional public classroom. Magnet, charter, vouchers are all about doing things in a different way. Maybe they focus on different things (art, music, math, engineering, etc), they may have a different structure (distance learning, multi-dimensional learning, combination, homeschooling, focused specialty programs, etc).

The bottom line is the system that we have is not working well, we know that. We've known that for many years. So then we try more of the same earlier - still doesn't work. We try to do all sorts of things within that system....not working. We need to change the system. Families have demanded something different and there are enough of them out there who are willing to do what it takes to make the changes they want to see.

Let's think about this, why would people be against parents choosing what they feel is the best education for their children? Why would we think that our government is better able to determine that for us?

As with all things, follow the money trail.

So getting back to your question.....it's sortof like comparing apples to oranges. Are we going to compare ALL public schools performances to ALL of Charter schools? If and when that actually happens, I think people will be very surprised.
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If parents want to send their kids to another school, that's fine.

However expecting the government to subsidize the entire cost of another separate, for profit, 'public school system' is simply unrealistic.

The bottom line about the charter school movement is to privatize public schools and make the federal government foot the bill, above and beyond what we already pay to fund public schools.

I don't believe you fix bad public schools by abandoning them.
There are several traditionally Black public schools in D.C. that have excellent academic records, Banneker and the Duke Ellington School for the Performing Arts among them, and they have not gone private.

In fact Banneker has been such an outstanding public school in D.C. for decades that it has become a magnet school.

If we really want to create successful public schools, we need to learn from the examples of similar schools and try to replicate them.
Charter schools at the end of the day are a money grab and not really dedicated to education in the long run.
 
DudeNY12 said:
Right. Usually when I hear of someone graduating from Wharton... It's grad school with a MBA. Trump and his people throw out Wharton, but it's my understanding that it's an undergrad education.
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The Wharton School at UPenn has an undergrad curriculum that students have to apply and be accepted into to earn a Wharton undergrad degree in various business and finance majors.
Those undergrads take most of their primary curriculum at the Wharton school.

When Trump says he went to Wharton, I assume he's talking about their MBA program since his ugly mug is on the walls inside.lol
 
andreboba said:
If parents want to send their kids to another school, that's fine.

However expecting the government to subsidize the entire cost of another separate, for profit, 'public school system' is simply unrealistic.

The bottom line about the charter school movement is to privatize public schools and make the federal government foot the bill, above and beyond what we already pay to fund public schools.

I don't believe you fix bad public schools by abandoning them.
There are several traditionally Black public schools in D.C. that have excellent academic records, Banneker and the Duke Ellington School for the Performing Arts among them, and they have not gone private.

In fact Banneker has been such an outstanding public school in D.C. for decades that it has become a magnet school.

If we really want to create successful public schools, we need to learn from the examples of similar schools and try to replicate them.
Charter schools at the end of the day are a money grab and not really dedicated to education in the long run.
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"make the federal government foot the bill, above and beyond what we already pay to fund public schools." Really? how so?

Ok since you seem to be one who loves to go on and on....what are your answers to actually fix things? You have plenty to say about what shouldn't be done, how about what should be done? Oh and how about exactly how it will happen and be paid for?

And then I really have to wonder how many children you have now or in the past who have gone through the public system?
 
medullaslashin said:
My point is that because our society is diverse, people will resist entitlements. They resent the idea of providing stuff like education and health care to people they don't consider "their own".

I think germany's system of entitlements came about before there was an influx of immigrants. And now that there is, true to form, people are beginning to question that system.
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Yup pretty much. It's this idea that they are somehow paying for them as if people that look like them aren't paying taxes too.
Especially black people. I maintain if your family built this economic powerhouse called America through slave labor you get to enjoy social welfare conflict free for at least 100 years and a day.
 
K said:
"make the federal government foot the bill, above and beyond what we already pay to fund public schools." Really? how so?

Ok since you seem to be one who loves to go on and on....what are your answers to actually fix things? You have plenty to say about what shouldn't be done, how about what should be done? Oh and how about exactly how it will happen and be paid for?

And then I really have to wonder how many children you have now or in the past who have gone through the public system?
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Use Canada and Finland as a model and apply here. This shit ain't rocket science the resources are there. Why not question how we have people who haven't step foot in a classroom in the last 20 years making policy.
 
Please explain to me how Magnets/Charters/Vouchers limits poor and is against them?

Charter schools allowed me to give my children a great deal of resources that I would not have been able to as a poor single mom.

I don't agree with the idea of taking including private schools in vouchers (especially NOT religious schools). However, IF it were to go that way too (I really can't imagine that happening) it would give poor kids the opportunity to go to those schools as well.
 
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