WHY REPUBLICANS RIP THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT

Like Democracy they came from ideas of reformers. Religions just attached themeselves to the cause later. These ideas came from revolutions. Which frowned on organized religion and church and state. I'm not saying religious people didn't help. But these movements came from ideas of freedom/humanity not any doctrines of religion. Thats why so many left organized religions to follow these movements. And force organized religions to accept these movements.

Who defined marriage as an institution between a man and woman? Its definitely not in the constitution. Not letting gays get married is discrimination.

 

the Quakers and the Baptist didnt leave anything, and they were not reformers in those two groups they were people of faith, putting in Action. MLK Jr's mountain speech was not a reformer's speech--as he was not working for an organization or a political entity--he was a baptist preacher doing the call of God. The abolitionist movement by the Quakers never morphed into a movement, it was the churches, ministers and lay people who activated the movement and caused the reformers(the Republican Party under Lincoln)to run on the anti-slavery ticket.

 

Quakers were founded on dissatisfaction with Christianity. The reformers were the people who first brought the ideas of anti-slavery. Which came after revolutions. Quakers were the first group to support anti-slavery. But the ideas were first proposed by individual nonconformists. MLK jr. didn't start the civil rights movement. But he was a figure that helped alot of it. Dred Scott started the civil rights movement. Not because of religion but because of freedom. For the most part religion supported slavery and no civil rights for blacks. They only changed later when they had to.

 

On whether Lincoln was religious or not. You should read William Henry Herndon book. Its one of the more controversial aspects of Lincoln.

 

what?? i didnt understand that? who is Lincoln? do you mean President Lincoln? what does that have to do with the religious denomination Quakers and Abolitionists ?

i dont know what Lincolns religion is and i dont think that is the issue

 

I already explained about the quakers. You brought up Abraham Lincoln as a reformer. So I just gave more information on him.

 

as a reformer, not a religious person and i was talking about the Republican Party and their platform as an anti-slavery party starting in 1854. I never talked of his religious positions.

 

I wish I could sit in a room with the two of you guys when you get into these political debates. They're very interesting.

 

The republicans are way different from when they were in Lincoln's time. They had alot of the black vote from anti-slavery/emancipation. But lost it when they decided to make a 360 on the civil rights movement in support of the South. And thats when they lost the black vote.

 

I lost your point Jxsilicon? we are not talking about that.

yes Sardonic, it would be interesting, i love these great debates adn discussions, and jxsilicon is a worthy oponent who is very respectful and knowledgeable. His type of discourse is needed throughout this website.

 

Yeah, he knows how to leave the drama out of it all.

 

totally, and it is enjoyable having a debate with him. some folks love to name call because they cannot debate, Jxsilicon can actually give his opinion and hear the others opinion. we dont agree about much of anything but we can still have a conversation, that is respect.

 

I already talked about the quakers. I thought we were on modern religious ideas such as abortion.

 

I only wish alot of political groups could debate in this manner. Its pretty atrocious what goes on in congress.

 

no, i didnt see that Jxsilicon--where did you move from one to the other?

 

My post before I talked about Lincoln.

 

let me check

 

hwo did Dred Scott start the civil rights movement? and which non conformist reformers started the antislavery movements?

Quakers are a religious sect from the church of England, not upset with Christianity, but having a different interpretation of the revelation of God. They had nothing against Christianity but rather the Church of England, as did most Christian groups who came to the US for religious liberty.

 

The Dred Scott decision. He challenged black civil rights in supreme court. Which began a movement. Which caused Abraham Lincoln to create the Republicans and move towards abolishment. And the civil rights act to be created and so on. One of the non-conformist reformers was Quobna Ottobah Cugoano. The french revolution brought on the ideas of equality and liberty.

Yes the quakers were a part of the group who dissented the Church of England. Which is the reason for separation of church and state.

 

Seperation of church and state is not in the constitution but rather, Congress shall make no laws abridging the rights of religion or making state religion, it had nothing to do with Quakers who were here after the puritans and pilgrims. and after our revolution then the french revolution happened.

what reformer was this guy, not where in our history.

Dred Scott decision made it more clear that there would be a civil war, not a civil rights movement. Abe Lincoln didnt create the Republican party, it was created in Wisconsin and it drafted Lincoln to run for President. He was not an abolitionist nor did he advocate the end of slavery, as he was a Kentuckian and his wife was. His party was founded on the principles of antislavery.