Young Brother Beaten To Death On Greek Island!!!

[medullaslashin]

When has not fighting back deterred an attacker??

lol -- are you serious? ...

I wouldn't be afraid to get locked up in a NATO country.

lol -- you can't be serious about that ^ ...

Why would you even go to a country where you wouldn't even feel comfortable defending yourself??

I wouldn't. But remember -- sometimes the best defense of all is not fighting... or even beating a hasty retreat.

If he had not fought -- and had simply retreated -- he just might be alive today. Instead, he fought, then tried to defend himself by retreating... but by then the "mob mentality" was all over him...

But all in all, I wouldn't visit a country where simply avoiding violence wasn't adequate... like Afghanistan, let's say, where you might be kidnapped for nothing... Point is, staying far away from violence is often the best defense of all.

 

[Beasty]

lol -- are you serious? ...



lol -- you can't be serious about that ^ ...



I wouldn't. But remember -- sometimes the best defense of all is not fighting... or even beating a hasty retreat.

If he had not fought -- and had simply retreated -- he just might be alive today. Instead, he fought, then tried to defend himself by retreating... but by then the "mob mentality" was all over him...

But all in all, I wouldn't visit a country where avoiding violence wasn't an ineffective defense... like Afghanistan, let's say, where you might be kidnapped for nothing... Point is, staying far away from violence is the best defense of all.

Not sure if you are being serious......lol

Stay far away from violence? Like not go to the bar at all? Lol.

Yeah, that was a serious question again.....when has not fighting back deterred an attack? Reasonable people try to avoid a fight but once someone hits you, its time to fight back.

 

[Bliss]

No way would I have punched back -- drunk or not. In fact, I probably wouldn't have been drinking (at least not to any point that it impairs my faculties) in a bar in a foreign land. (Probably wouldn't have been in the bar in the first place -- but that's just me... I don't travel to go to bars. Plenty of that right here at home, and they're pretty much all the same...)

If the guy had been furiously pummeling me, I would've defended myself to the point were I could retreat or rally others to stop the assault. But punch for punch? Nope. ...Because I'd be aware that I'm not at home... and would want to get back there in one piece without having to deal with some foreign legal system.

If you're going to be a traveler, you gotta know how you're gonna handle shit beforehand. Without "instinct"... without emotion.

Again, in theory you are absolutely spot on, in a perfect world, indeed, your advice is wise as ever.

I feel in this situation however,. this young man felt emboldened by alcohol and felt safe enough to fight back. Likely because it's a PARTY Island where tourist are everywhere and Greeks are few and far in between. Only a few locals remain and its to work there for the influx of tourists.

Additionally, as you say, bar fights happen all the time. And they're removed from the joint. This should have been no different and l'm sure he thought it wouldn't result in a pack of animals stomping him.. This shit - slapping him, chasing him, ganging up on him and repeatedly kicking him, was personal. I believe because he was good looking, American and Black.

Medu, l have been in these situations he was in. I cant explain it to you, it's there if you're in-tune to it, but he likely didn't pick up on it., I personally encountered racist crap either BEHIND THE BACK of the Black men l was in company with, or by people who didn't know l understood the language, or said rude comments straight to my face.
(Greece was about a decade behind in IR when l was there last which was twenty years ago and Serbia probably two decades, l'm guessing.)

I doubt this young man knew how quickly the tide could turn. Recently, when a Serbian was warned of NYC's danger if he visited, he scoffed, "In Serbia, all we know is violence". So this no empathy, dirty brass knuckle fighting does not surprise me.

In fairness, most people don't care about IR couples in Greece, but the minority that do, make it horrible for everyone else. This stain affects me deeply - I'm so ashamed my Country men did not protect this young man..To me, it's unforgivable.

 

[Beasty]

lol -- are you serious? ...



lol -- you can't be serious about that ^ ...



I wouldn't. But remember -- sometimes the best defense of all is not fighting... or even beating a hasty retreat.

If he had not fought -- and had simply retreated -- he just might be alive today. Instead, he fought, then tried to defend himself by retreating... but by then the "mob mentality" was all over him...

But all in all, I wouldn't visit a country where simply avoiding violence wasn't adequate... like Afghanistan, let's say, where you might be kidnapped for nothing... Point is, staying far away from violence is often the best defense of all.

I would be afraid of being locked up in Mexico, but thats why I dont go there.

If I feel comfortable enough to visit, then I'm comfortable enough to defend myself if need be.

 

[medullaslashin]

Not sure if you are being serious......lol

Stay far away from violence? Like not go to the bar at all? Lol.

Yeah, that was a serious question again.....when has not fighting back deterred an attack? Reasonable people try to avoid a fight but once someone hits you, its time to fight back.

Yeah, if it's the wrong bar, I'll stay away... If I'm aware that certain surroundings might not be good for my health & enjoyment, I'll stay away. If the scene turns ugly while I'm there, I'll leave... Especially if I'm overseas, that is, not defending my family, territory & rights. I'm there for a week & not wanting to end up there forever because I've caught a case or whatever...

I've read accounts that say this incident started with words... If that's the case, there was opportunity to defuse it and retreat, instead of talking smack & punching back. I'll bet there were other bars on that island that he and his friends could've bounced to.

...And yes, people avoid violence by not hitting back all the time! Abused wives do it. People facing mob violence do it. I'm sure you can think of many scenarios in which a situation is defused by not hitting back.

lol -- This is almost the same debate as the one we had when that football player creamed that cheerleader for smacking him...

And I'll say the same thing I said in that case: I'll bet his family wishes he had simply retreated.

 

[Beasty]

Yeah, if it's the wrong bar, I'll stay away... If I'm aware that certain surroundings might not be good for my health & enjoyment, I'll stay away. If the scene turns ugly while I'm there, I'll leave... Especially if I'm overseas, that is, not defending my family, territory & rights. I'm there for a week & not wanting to end up there forever because I've caught a case or whatever...

I've read accounts that say this incident started with words... If that's the case, there was opportunity to defuse it and retreat, instead of talking smack & punching back. I'll bet there were other bars on that island that he and his friends could've bounced to.

...And yes, people avoid violence by not hitting back all the time! Abused wives do it. People facing mob violence do it. I'm sure you can think of many scenarios in which a situation is defused by not hitting back.

lol -- This is almost the same debate as the one we had when that football player creamed that cheerleader for smacking him...

And I'll say the same thing I said in that case: I'll bet his family wishes he had simply retreated.

lol at you comparing this to domestic abuse ect.

Was that football player even in danger? Lol. Are you trying to derail the thread with these rediculous comparisons?

 

[medullaslashin]

I would be afraid of being locked up in Mexico, but thats why I dont go there.

If I feel comfortable enough to visit, then I'm comfortable enough to defend myself if need be.

I wouldn't want to be locked up anywhere... but especially not overseas. That places a huge burden on your family... Not to mention the shit you'll go through in jail, being the outsider, not speaking the language... Your own lawyer will probably not be on your side.

The "golden" values are the ones that work for you in the best situations & the worst... Mexico or Amsterdam... Such as avoiding catching cases while overseas! lol

 

[medullaslashin]

Do you think he even knew that he was facing mob violence?

And lol at you comparing this to domestic abuse ect.

Was that football player even in danger? Lol. Are you trying to derail the thread with these rediculous comparisons?

Dude -- a bar fight in which you're surrounded by strangers can go in ANY direction... from shooting to mob violence... Ya gotta know that upfront... especially if you're gonna bar hop overseas... especially if you're going to an island with a reputation for rowdiness...

And everyone should know testosterone and alcohol are a volatile mix already. Just understand certain things up front, is all I'm sayin'... Helps you know how you're going to handle the situation. If you're going overseas, know how to act & react, right?

Just like people traveling to thailand are forewarned: if you get into a fight, they're going to jump you, so don't get into a fight... Thais have that reputation, so travelers should know what to do and what not to do... they should think about these things before they set foot overseas.

 

[medullaslashin]

This should have been no different and l'm sure he thought it wouldn't result in a pack of animals stomping him..

Yeah, but bar fights end that way lots of time. The victim doesn't always die, but people get their asses seriously whupped in bar fights around the world every weekend. That's valuable knowledge!

 

[flaminghetero]

I guess the fact that I made another suggestion as to why a black American citizen might be assaulted in Europe does not go do well.
So just lets go

But people here don't want to see anything except that he was beaten to death because he was black.
It maybe something else.
For starters, who takes a selfie of a waitress in her workplace?
This does not excuse the crime but the court will take all these factors into consideration when prosecuting.

If that were an Arab that was beaten to death...you'd be talking out the other side of your mouth...

 

[medullaslashin]

This should have been no different and l'm sure he thought it wouldn't result in a pack of animals stomping him..

Again -- not saying this was Bakari's fault... I'm just talking about the take-away... what I'd tell my own sons regarding this incident.

 

[flaminghetero]

Doesn't matter! In fact, the potential for weapons coming into play is just another reason to avoid the violence.

How do you know he was throwing punches??

Surely you're not taking their word for it.

 

[medullaslashin]

Medu, l have been in these situations he was in. I cant explain it to you, it's there if you're in-tune to it, but he likely didn't pick up on it., I personally encountered racist crap either BEHIND THE BACK of the Black men l was in company with, or by people who didn't know l understood the language, or said rude comments straight to my face.
(Greece was about a decade behind in IR when l was there last which was twenty years ago and Serbia probably two decades, l'm guessing.)

I doubt this young man knew how quickly the tide could turn. Recently, when a Serbian was warned of NYC's danger if he visited, he scoffed, "In Serbia, all we know is violence". So this no empathy, dirty brass knuckle fighting does not surprise me.

In fairness, most people don't care about IR couples in Greece, but the minority that do, make it horrible for everyone else. This stain affects me deeply - I'm so ashamed my Country men did not protect this young man..To me, it's unforgivable.

I don't know much about racism against IR in greece... I'll take your word for it... but that supports my point -- in unfamiliar surroundings, surrounded by alcohol and foreign young dudes... be aware of your surroundings and circumspect about disputes...

 

[medullaslashin]

How do you know he was throwing punches??

Surely you're not taking their word for it.

Reports say one guy smacked him and he punched back. Video shows him punching back... I can't tell who's who in the vid, but presumably the journalists reporting on this can...

I've also read that he responded verbally to a guy who insulted the waitress for taking the selfie with him...

Go to about the 0:52 mark...

 

[Beasty]

Dude -- a bar fight in which you're surrounded by strangers can go in ANY direction... from shooting to mob violence... Ya gotta know that upfront... especially if you're gonna bar hop overseas... especially if you're going to an island with a reputation for rowdiness...

And everyone should know testosterone and alcohol are a volatile mix already. Just understand certain things up front, is all I'm sayin'... Helps you know how you're going to handle the situation. If you're going overseas, know how to act & react, right?

Just like people traveling to thailand are forewarned: if you get into a fight, they're going to jump you, so don't get into a fight... Thais have that reputation, so travelers should know what to do and what not to do... they should think about these things before they set foot overseas.

He did what was reasonable. Which is: 1.) fight your way out of the bar.
2.) Retreat when you find out you are severely outnumbered.

Too bad he had no one to help when he couldn't get away. Sometimes people are in situations where they just need some help.

 

[darkcurry]

I can't believe this thread devolved into people actually blaming him without coming out and saying it plainly. This is like what people do when unarmed black people get shot by the cops. "If they would've done this or that they will still be alive." The dude slammed a bottle down and then hit him in the head, he was already at that point in anger. ANYything Bakari done he wasn't going to like it.

And people need to REALLY understand racism and stop expecting racist people to come out and tell you they are racist. If they aren't PROUDLY apart of a hate group I don't expect racist to come right out and admit especially to the authorities they committed a hate crime. He took a picture with a waitress and of all people in that Bar they single him out, like we are suppose to believe that this is the first time americans came through that bar.

 

[medullaslashin]

He did what was reasonable. Which is: 1.) fight your way out of the bar.
2.) Retreat when you find out you are severely outnumbered.

Too bad he had no one to help when he couldn't get away. Sometimes people are in situations where they just need some help.

Take a look at the vid above. I would've wanted any kid of mine who was traveling overseas to respond to that smack by informing the bouncer and leaving as soon as it was safe.

 

[medullaslashin]

I can't believe this thread devolved into people actually blaming him without coming out and saying it plainly. This is like what people do when unarmed black people get shot by the cops. "If they would've done this or that they will still be alive." The dude slammed a bottle down and then hit him in the head, he was already at that point in anger. ANYything Bakari done he wasn't going to like it.

And people need to REALLY understand racism and stop expecting racist people to come out and tell you they are racist. If they aren't PROUDLY apart of a hate group I don't expect racist to come right out and admit especially to the authorities they committed a hate crime. He took a picture with a waitress and of all people in that Bar they single him out, like we are suppose to believe that this is the first time americans came through that bar.

People? Surely you're not talking about me -- because I've made it clear a number of times that I'm not saying it's his fault... and I hope the guys who killed him pay a price.

I'm mainly talking about the takeaway -- ie. how this could've been avoided... how common bar fights are ... and how frequently they spin out of control & someone gets killed.

Shouldn't get in to bar fights. Especially overseas! You're overseas to have a good time & come home... Not to rot in a foreign prison or come home in a body bag.

 

[flaminghetero]

Reports say one guy smacked him and he punched back. Video shows him punching back... I can't tell who's who in the vid, but presumably the journalists reporting on this can...

I've also read that he responded verbally to a guy who insulted the waitress for taking the selfie with him...

Go to about the 0:52 mark...

I'm sure he was punching back AFTER he was SWARMED.
That's not the right time to play Gandhi.

Let's say he was into it with one guy....that does not justify the others jumping in.

 

[darkcurry]

People? Surely you're not talking about me -- because I've made it clear a number of times that I'm not saying it's his fault... and I hope the guys who killed him pay a price.

I'm mainly talking about the takeaway -- ie. how this could've been avoided... how common bar fights are ... and how frequently they spin out of control & someone gets killed.

Shouldn't get in to bar fights. Especially overseas! You're overseas to have a good time & come home... Not to rot in a foreign prison or come home in a body bag.