Emma Watson's Response To Being Called A White Feminist

andreboba said:
There is no singular opinion of what 'feminism' means or how it's defined.
I know meowkittenmeow has a skewed view of feminism because of his own personal life experience, but I know dozens of 'feminists' personally who would view male victims of sexual assault by women as true VICTIMS and not collateral damage as a part of a greater feminist movement.

Personally I feel it's disingenuous to condemn the entire feminist movement because you didn't receive the empathy you feel you deserved from a few individuals, just like I believe it's wrong for TDK to tarnish 'feminism' as a worthwhile civil rights struggle because there are strains of feminism that embrace White supremacy.

Both of you are grossly generalizing your own personal experiences as representative of almost 90 years years of the women's rights movement.

To assume Ema Watson is both unsympathetic to male victims of sexual assault by women, or believes in the ideology of White supremacy, simply because she dares to call herself a feminist, is way too narrow minded IMO.

Almost every woman I know in her private moments would classify herself as a feminist, and none of them fit the definition TDK and meowkittenmeow have talked about.
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I don't get it, what exactly is the issue?
1.) Rape is disgusting to at least 99 percent of men. 2) The biggest enemy to women getting justice are the WOMEN that lie about being raped. 3.)There is no data supporting this imaginary pay gap.

Fuck is the movement really about? Domestic violence? Call the police or your brother, he gets his ass beat or jail.

What am I missing?

Courts favor women in child custody.

Ect. Ect........
 
meowkittenmeow said:
I get that has been your personal experience. I am happy that it has been positive. But, your personal experiences doesn't negate our personal experiences.

You mention 90 years of feminism, as if you didn't tell me to leave their historical white supremacy out so as not to be a slave to history.

You said that you found it odd that BM are discussing what feminism is and isn't yet you do the same.

You expect us to just accept feminists opinion of feminism, yet when feminist opinions are shown to you, you write it off as "whiney left snowflake" stuff.

You say that feminists care about male victims when the feminist created duluth model removes male victims completely as well as female victims who suffer at the hands of women. And the wheel of abuse is used by a number of institutions so it creates a feminist system against men. But, we are somehow "skewed" if we point that out.


"Personally I feel it's disingenuous to condemn the entire feminist movement because you didn't receive the empathy you feel you deserved from a few individuals,"

Furthermore, in regards to "tarnishing a movement", feminism has tarnished itself with it's oppressive models. That being said, you are in no position to comment on my experiences as a rape survivor and my experiences aren't limited to "a few feminists". I can assure you it was many more than a few and their misandric oppression of male survivors is systemic and wide reaching. If it was a "few" that wouldn't be the case. So, I would suggest you focus on things you have experienced and not my experiences as if you have any in depth information about my experiences as a rape survivor dealing with feminists and feminism.

I'd also like to add that arguing that white feminism doesn't exist in a thread about a feminist discussing how white feminism exists is rather contradicting.

I am done discussing this with you because it's ridiculous at this point. Just do me a favor and stop mentioning me in your posts in this thread. I will gladly do the same for you.
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Bro, I'm sorry but your experience is an extreme example of sexual assault and has tainted IMO your entire view of women, forget feminism.

How many adult men do you think have been victims of sexual assault from a WOMAN???

You have this one issue and because it wasn't met with empathy by a small group of feminists, you believe feminism is a junk movement.
And yes, I know it was a small group of feminists who didn't understand your pain. Still you talk like you stood in front of a group of hundreds of feminists and they ALL told you to kick rocks.

Generalizing is bad in both directions.
I know of the chicks I knew when I was younger, if I ever told them I had been raped by a woman, I can't imagine one of them not caring.
But that still doesn't change the fact that women by far are victims of sexual violence from men than the other way around.

The world doesn't work that way.
 
andreboba said:
Bro, I'm sorry but your experience is an extreme example of sexual assault and has tainted IMO your entire view of women, forget feminism.

How many adult men do you think have been victims of sexual assault from a WOMAN???

You have this one issue and because it wasn't met with empathy by a small group of feminists, you believe feminism is a junk movement.
And yes, I know it was a small group of feminists who didn't understand your pain. Still you talk like you stood in front of a group of hundreds of feminists and they ALL told you to kick rocks.

Generalizing is bad in both directions.
I know of the chicks I knew when I was younger, if I ever told them I had been raped by a woman, I can't imagine one of them not caring.
But that still doesn't change the fact that women by far are victims of sexual violence from men than the other way around.

The world doesn't work that way.
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I am not sure why you speak of the "dozens of femnists you have met" yet we are supposed to ignore the dozens we have met.

And I find it interesting that you completely ignore the systemic oppression of male victims of rape, sexual assault, and domestic violence through feminist created models.

The reality is I keep mentioning these things and you keep ignoring them. I provide you with proof in regards to white feminism, I cite references to white supremacy, I give you references to feminist models that negatively affect men. But the only thing yiu can do is say, "you only met a few feminists in your life and they weren't empathetic to what happened to you". When I inform you that isn't the case and since being raped in 2008 I have spoken to, well over 100 different feminists in the form of recovery groups, old friends I used to work with when I was a feminist, as well as university groups, VA groups and more. But, you keep saying a few as if the duluth model wasn't created by feminists and as if it doesn't affect men that suffer from domestic violence. Or as if the wheel of abuse doesn't silence male victims of violence in any capacity.

I get it, you have no problems making assumptions about my experiences as a rape survivor because it doesn't fit your narrative. You are obviously not the first feminist to do this. And as many articles written by feminists, you still have yet to cite anything and continue to ignore the information we provide.

You haven't even remotely addressed the number of double standards you created in your posts. But, then again you really shouldn't be telling me what feminism is because as bm it's odd, as you mentioned.

Anyone that disagrees with you is a left whiney snowflake, or a skewed opinion having rape survivor with "a few" bad experiences. Whatever you need to fit your narrative. When that doesn't work you do the typical thing and just ask, "but how many men are raped?", in an attempt to straw man your failing argument.

You never address your contradicting statements nor do you address the large number of feminists that disagree with you on white feminism in the articles I've shown.

So, arguing with someone like that is sad, and pathetic on my part. And I will no longer take part in it. I can post article or cite works and information all day, but you will red herring and straw man your way through it, while simultaneously neglecting to cite anything in regards to your argument and will dismiss everything regardless of how true it is.

You inability to address the double standards you created in this thread that I amd others pointed out is ridiculous. The straw man arguments you make to avoid them are sad. Quite franky, the way you argue with no cited works or information, yet expect everyone to provide you with, mixed with your constant deflection and straw man statements really remind me of someone in particular and I am skeptical...

Finally, pointing out the problems of a movement or ideology is the fast track to reform. It can either make it better or create something better. Ignoring the problems and history of the movement does nothing positive. But, I understand, based in your method of argument, that you are convinced and will ignore any and everything that doesn't fit your narrative (even when calling out your double standards and contradictions... this is a feminist saying that white feminism exists and yet you applaud her then go on to say it doesn't exist while scolding bm for agreeing with her feminist point of view and not yours, then saying that we should listen to feminists... but not the left whiney snowflakes, though... wow... ).

So, as I said, do not mention me and I will not mention you. You have failed to provide any information countering the argument of white feminism, and you have spent entirely too much time trying to downplay my experiences as a rape survivor. I won't endure that level of disrespect and I find you utterly repulsive for doing so. So, as I know you will not stop mentioning me. I will just have to put you on ignore.
 
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K said:
A lot more than you would think. And people's attitudes about it are the biggest reason why we don't hear about it or realize how often it happens.
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Men typically are most likely victims of sexual assault as children. As adults, men are more at risk of sexual assault from another MAN than from a woman.

"More than you think" still means it's rare.

As for this entire discussion about White feminism being a corollary for White supremacy, or that somehow 'White feminism' is its own unique form of feminism, separate from the feminist beliefs of non-White women, etc., citing articles by random women trying to slur feminists who happen to be White doesn't make it a 'thing'.

So what was the point in calling Emma Watson a White feminist??
What had she done or said that made her deserving of this specific categorization??

As far as I can tell, Emma's unforgivable sin was that she dared call herself a 'feminist' but didn't have the appropriate brown skin.
It's akin to a White person announcing that he's from Mississippi and everyone else in the room standing up and saying, "Oh, you must be racist."

Yes, there are White feminists. No, there isn't a specific form of feminism called 'White feminism' that describes millions of feminists in this country in some meaningful way.
 
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meowkittenmeow said:
Listen, although the rest of the world sees feminism as a movement and ideology, you said you do not. I get that you have some holistic view of what it is. That's fine. And it isnyour business.
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I think you've summed up the real issue here perfectly. You believe you speak for the rest of the world Clearly you do not lol.

meowkittenmeow said:
I have tried to explain, but I suppose I am going to have to be blunt. I have no interest in your views or opinions
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Because they differ from yours. I get it. I find closed-mindedness of that sort on any topic really sad in this day and age.
 
andreboba said:
There is no singular opinion of what 'feminism' means or how it's defined.
I know meowkittenmeow has a skewed view of feminism because of his own personal life experience, but I know dozens of 'feminists' personally who would view male victims of sexual assault by women as true VICTIMS and not collateral damage as a part of a greater feminist movement.

Personally I feel it's disingenuous to condemn the entire feminist movement because you didn't receive the empathy you feel you deserved from a few individuals, just like I believe it's wrong for TDK to tarnish 'feminism' as a worthwhile civil rights struggle because there are strains of feminism that embrace White supremacy.

Both of you are grossly generalizing your own personal experiences as representative of almost 90 years of the women's rights movement.

To assume Ema Watson is both unsympathetic to male victims of sexual assault by women, or believes in the ideology of White supremacy, simply because she dares to call herself a feminist, is way too narrow minded IMO.

Almost every woman I know in her private moments would classify herself as a feminist, and none of them fit the definition TDK and meowkittenmeow have talked about.
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Thank you, Sir.
As you say, meowkittenmeow has his own skewed views of feminism because of personal experience.
My point is, so does EVERYONE. It's completely subjective.
The great shame and wrong in all of this though is to just blindly tar everyone with the same brush.
One person's bad experience at the hands of "feminists" are not representative of the attitudes/behaviours of all of the other feminists in the world.
Pretty simple really.
 
The Dark King said:
Not remotely true. I may not use the term white feminist but I a regularly say I support women not feminism because that bs is racist.... the only difference is they want white women in power instead of men.
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Don't you want Black men in power instead of White men, Black women, White women, Asian men and women etc..?
 
andreboba said:
You think women like Gloria Steinem, Naomi Klein and Camille Paglia are covert White supremacists?
I don't know when feminism became an adjunct for White supremacy.
....
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When women finally started to claim some equality and powerfulness through sheer effort and determination.
Unfortunately, it brought out the hiss and venom with the most simplist default 'logical' explanation available, -- 'They must be(come/seen as) racist and so we shall smear them as such'.
 
Good try never once said anything close to that. I want progressives in charge true progressives like Bernie or Natasha Brown from Ohio or Gilibrand. People who give two fucks about people and not just the rich.
Say it with me Bliss Progressives.
Beat it with your race baiting.
 
redlolly said:
Thank you, Sir.
As you say, meowkittenmeow has his own skewed views of feminism because of personal experience.
My point is, so does EVERYONE. It's completely subjective.
The great shame and wrong in all of this though is to just blindly tar everyone with the same brush.
One person's bad experience at the hands of "feminists" are not representative of the attitudes/behaviours of all of the other feminists in the world.
Pretty simple really.
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I implore you to read ain't I woman that sums it up nicely
 
The Dark King said:
Good try never once said anything close to that. I want progressives in charge true progressives like Bernie or Natasha Brown from Ohio or Gilibrand. People who give two fucks about people and not just the rich.
Say it with me Bliss Progressives.
Beat it with your race baiting.
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Oh shut up. Yes you did. Clear as day you said feminism is white supremacy. Race baiting if l ever saw it.
Bernie is a Socialist in name only fool. He wears $700 parkas, lives in several mansions and sold out to Hillbilly for that newest mansion after she scammed him out of his nomination. Lol.
 
Bliss said:
Oh shut up. Yes you did. Clear as day you said feminism is white supremacy. Race baiting if l ever saw it.
Bernie is a Socialist in name only fool. He wears $700 parkas, lives in several mansions and sold out to Hillbilly for that newest mansion after she scammed him out of his nomination. Lol.
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Interesting how you think progressive means socialist. Bet I'm an intellectual elite because I went to college huh. Keep riding with those actively trying to destroy you youngin. And I stand by what I said. Feminist as a whole do not see non white women as women. That's why people like Patricia Arcquette tell us its time for people of color and homosexual people to stand with women as if there can't be women who are of color and/or homosexual.
When I see the feminist cause extend to problems that extend beyond upper middle class white women then we can talk.
 
The Dark King said:
It's a great illustration of what it feels like to be a woman in a country that sees femininity as white and black as male. It leaves a lot of people out even though its not the intent.
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Please forgive me if my recollections about it aren't correct.
I read it for a course at school years ago and more than likely skipped over or skim-read some parts :)
I agree with her arguments about sexism & racism being intertwined, I think that's a given.
Really it only serves to prove that no one voice can speak for all on these issues.
My own thoughts on feminism will be completely different from those of a Muslim housewife living under the Taliban, or a similar Muslim housewife living in the UK, or, of course, from a black woman living in America during the era of slavery & suffrage.
The goal or destination is universal, but we are all at different points along the road, due to historic differences of gender, race, culture and personal circumstances.
The real point I believe is that the most effective way forward is to find a way for these differences to unite and not divide us.
Emma Watson's point in the OP, I believe.
 
redlolly said:
I think you've summed up the real issue here perfectly. You believe you speak for the rest of the world Clearly you do not lol.


Because they differ from yours. I get it. I find closed-mindedness of that sort on any topic really sad in this day and age.
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As far as speaking for the rest of the world, I do not. I agree. But pretending that feminism isn't a movement and ideology and is some magical thing is just creepy and insane. But, by all.means, believe what you want, lol.

I also agree with your statement on close mindedness. Considering that you turn a blind eye to the white supremacy within feminism. It honestly is a sad thing to be on a ww bm site and watch a ww turn a blind eye to systemic oppression of bm and black people.

Interesting, that the entire thread is about white supremacy within feminism, and how some feminists are trying to combat that. Yet, your focus is on pretending that it doesn't exist. I agree, such narrow viewpoints are a sad thing. But, I wish you the best with that.

You, like your friend in this thread provide no information on the contrary. You, like your friend in this thread ignore the opinions, views, and feelings of countless feminists who sre actually attempting to give feminism a good name by oointing out its historical and current white supremacy. Yes, redlol, I agree, such things are sad.

If you feel the need to reply to this in case you feel the need to get the last word, feel free. I just hope in the future that you provide some evidence and information to the contrary this time. Otherwise, you are just talking and not actually debating.

As far as I am concerned, due to your lack of information and evidence to the contrary, I will consider this case closed. It seems that a great number of women, some feminist some note, are more than well aware of white feminism and white supremacy and refuse to turn a blind eye to it. Their arguments hold validity due to the information and evidence they provide in countless articles, studies, and shared experiences. Something you and your friend failed to provide to further your arguments.

In spite of my issues with feminism and the misandric systemic oppression it causes, I have elaborated some of the good it has done in other threads. Unfortunately, the narrow minded will just take offense to change as oppose to learning, embracing, and understanding it.

I wish you the best and feel free to take your last word if needed.
 
redlolly said:
Thank you, Sir.
As you say, meowkittenmeow has his own skewed views of feminism because of personal experience.
My point is, so does EVERYONE. It's completely subjective.
The great shame and wrong in all of this though is to just blindly tar everyone with the same brush.
One person's bad experience at the hands of "feminists" are not representative of the attitudes/behaviours of all of the other feminists in the world.
Pretty simple really.
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I suppose it is customary to speak about rape survivors as skewed. Good to know. Thanks, I find it interesting that just about every self proclaimed feminist on this website has attempted to use my experiences as a survivor to create an opinion that my views are skewed. When all I have done is provide information to support my opinion and views over multiple threads. Yet, none of you provide any credible information. It's good to know. Have a good one.

I'd also like to add, that this is a common excuse given for rape survivors who are attempting to fix the issues that caused rape, sexual assault, and violence in the first place. There really is nothing new under the sun.
 
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