That's all I was trying to get access. We have the *privilege* of not having to concern ourselves with it as a general rule (perhaps outside of a prison context at least, per your caveat). But OF COURSE we have plenty of other concerns that other groups have the privilege of completely ignoring.
BM/WW IR sightings on TV
- Thread starter Kid Rasta
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The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Actually I will say we as black do not have any privileges at all because even in our realms of success we don't get by for being black men nothing is given to us we have to fight for every single inch.
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
If you read my first reply, black people (both men and women) have conditional privilege. IE. A privilege that requires you to meet certain standards to gain that privilege.
Think of conditional privilege like trickle down economics. The privileges of your gender whether male or female will trickle down from white men or white women. This is why black women can win custody or get favored in divorce proceedings like white women. Or why they don’t get gunned down by the police at the same rate as black men. However, if they are too “political” or pro black, those privileges can be revoked. Thus, making any privileges that black people experience, conditional.
A white person in our country can do crime, or other things, but they are still the default race, and many are still able to fail upwards. Like the statistic that a white man with a criminal record has a better chance at finding employment than a black man with a B.A. and no criminal record. Their privilege is institutionalized, ours is conditional. The privilege exists for both black men and women, but there are conditions that must be met at all times until the day you die.
Maybe this is where I'm miscommunicating. I'm not arguing that there's a black male privilege. I'm saying that black males are still males, and therefore still enjoy *some* (but not all) male privilege.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
The more I think about it the more I disagree. Dr. Thomas Curry has done extensive work on the rape of black and black boys as far back as slavery. I think the issue is black men have literally no space to talk about it 1 because we don't have the benefit of sympathy on any level.
2. We don't have any cultural language to identify and talk about what rape might be when it's black boys and men.
Black boys are just as likely as anyone to be abused sexually but like I said we have no cultural space to talk about it because culturally we don't support black male victims we shame them and try to strip them of their manhood.
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
Every group has trickle down privilege, IE. Condirional privilege, white people, in this country, have it institutionalized. Which is the real difference. I elaborated it a moment ago.
I must have missed or misunderstood that initial reply. I agree with this post. Thanks for the clarification.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
In a country founded on and predicated by race I just don't see where that can be true. Ultimately privilege is not systematic but cultural. Not only do you have access but the benefit of the doubt. As a black man you are guilty until proven innocent 10 times in a row. You walk a tight rope. Like meadow said it's conditional step out of line even in the slightest you're done.
Now a better picture of privilege are people who bold face lie with mountains of proof and still be believed. Privilege is knowing you can commit crimes and the so called legal system will let you walk. I've yet to see anything like that for black men have you?
Rape may not be the best example. But even so, I don't think black men are generally concerned about being sexually assaulted, especially not to the degree that women are concerned. (That obviously doesn't mean those things don't happen.)
But maybe I'm the exception. Never once in my life for a moment have I taken a single precaution to avoid being raped. Maybe that's less my male privilege and more my ignorance privilege.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Honestly from what I've observed I would think most women don't either. I am open to hearing women talk about it but it doesn't seem to stop them from hanging with men socially. There are people who do not feel safe around white people and will not socialize with them outside of work. I don't really see that happening with women but I could be totally wrong.
I think we're using different definitions of privilege. To me, knowing you can get away with crime is certainly a privilege, a prominent and valuable one (that shouldn't exist). But there are other privileges as well, some of which are less valuable but privileges nonetheless.
One stupid example is being able to pee standing up. It's an extremely trivial example, but it's still a privilege we as men have over women. It greatly eases our stress in finding clean restrooms in certain situations. Again, stupid example. But hopefully it proves my point that there are degrees of privilege, some of which are absolutely enjoyed by us black men.
Here's the Google definition of privilege:
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
You are pushing fringe feminism at the moment, bud. Please use better examples in the future. That’s like complaining that women have wider hips so they can sit with legs crossed more easily. This is just... come on, man
I specifically said it was a stupid example.
I haven't once argued that blacks (and other groups) are unfairly treated by institutional forces that those in power too often refuse to even acknowledge. We don't have it as easy as others, and that ain't right. But we definitely do have *some* societal advantages as men.
I guess we're at the "agree to disagree" point.
Agreed
You have a point! But, in my anecdotal experience, women who are way of sexual assualt still enjoy and associate with men. They just take reasonable precautions like letting friends know where you are at all times, carrying mace, parking under street lamps, etc.
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
We have conditional advantages, black women do too. So, if we are going to discuss black male privilege then we have to equally address black female privilege. Which, of course, is pointless because it is conditional, and you would have to be a minstrel sambo character to be able to maintain conditional privilege at all times.
Aha! That's all I'm saying! And of course conditional advantages/privileges can't be maintained at all times (by their very nature). I never meant to imply that black women are always without advantages either. They're people too.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Fam I did/do all of that too
And it's probably a good idea
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
Knowing that we (black people) all have conditional privilege makes it a little strange to bring up male privilege when referencing the black male experience. But, I’m going to let you cook, bud.