Obama supports Ground Zero mosque

[Iggy]

Once again I have to co-sign with Raocha on this. I think the Timothy Mcveigh analogy, as well as a David Koresh/Waco analogy are very appropriate here. Nobody would complain about a Christian church being built in OK city or Waco, even though wacked out christian extremists killed many people in those places in the name of god.

Islam has nothing to do with the wacked out extremist terrorists that caused 9/11 the same way Christianity has nothing to do with Koresh/Mcveigh. Al Qaeda/The Taliban, and other wacked out fundamentalists are not equal to all those who follow Islam, why should they suffer for the ignorance and violence of a select few?

This arguement always cracks me up if it wasnt so awful. The whole "a select few" makes it seem like only a couple, the disturbing reality is that it isnt a "select few" at all. Its actually hundreds of thousands.

Islam is a very dangerous religion that promotes hatred and violence (heck, even the Koran encourages violence towards the "infidels"(non muslims))

It is sorta mind boggling that a lot of people on the left stick up for Islam and never try to speak out againist it. Countries like Iran, Afganistan, Iraq etc etc violent so many basic human rights its not even funny. The woman there have basically the same rights as goats.:roll:

 

[goodlove]

Am I speaking a foreign language? I mean, really. 2 posters that I respect are putting words in my mouth.

Let me put it plainly:

If I were a politician in the city/state of NY, I would NOT deny them their right to build the community center/mosque. But it is in my right to not LIKE that decision.

I'm out of here. I'm tired of people calling me a bigot and putting words in my mouth.

I'm right now in a "I want to tell everyone to f**k off" mood.

people read what they want to read

 

[goodlove]

I agree that if this hadn't been so well publicized in the media, most likely people wouldn't have had such a negative reaction to it, but that's kinda obvious... it's difficult to dispute something you are unaware of.

However, calling Bookie a bigot is simply not appropriate. At no point did she express such sentiment Raocha. Saying you can understand why some people would be upset though you don't necessarily agree with them, is not bigotry, it's empathy.

I personally have no issue with a mosque being built anywhere, Muslims weren't responsible for 9/11, idiots were and idiocy knows no religion, it's an equal opportunity state of mind. However, I can see how it would bother some people, and not being from NYC I don't feel like I should really voice a strong opinion either way. So looks like I'm joining Bookie in the bigot camp... so be it, at least I'll be in good company with her and Drae.

exactly, its like the birmingham clinic bombing or oklahoma city bombing ...both were done by W.A.S.P and you dont see rational people screaming all churches with white people in them being torn down around those sites because those area are or should be considered sacred

 

[raocha]

I agree with you and Andrae 100,000,000%. Some folks don't get it.

Yeah, I don't get it.

Considering some of the other establishments that are already standing on this "Hallowed Ground," next to Ground Zero. I think that this whole thing is a crock and that you people are just regurgitating a bogus argument that you've heard on television without thinking critically about it.

This place is the same distance from the WTC that this community center is going to be:

For the people who were harping about gay bars and strip clubs, THEY'RE ALREADY THERE.

This is pretty close too:

So is this:

And this:

And plenty of bars like this:

Yeah, "Hallowed Ground." :roll:

 

[Malik True]

Dude were you living in New York when 9/11 happened? Because putting a Mosque on the site where thousands were murdered in the name of Allah is the same as having Confederate flags hanging all over the place in the south. Its insensative and basically uncalled for.

Uhhhh NO, NO, NO! Your analogy in regards to the confederate flag clearly reveals what most Americans know about Islam, nothing! Islam is not a radical religion it's a peaceful religion. The faith is twisted by those who wish to use Islam as they see fit for their own purpose. Had a group of Christians slammed into the the World Trade there would be no outcry about building a church not far away. Americans think Islam is a hateful religion and do not fully understand what it's about.

 

[raocha]

I agree that if this hadn't been so well publicized in the media, most likely people wouldn't have had such a negative reaction to it, but that's kinda obvious... it's difficult to dispute something you are unaware of.

However, calling Bookie a bigot is simply not appropriate. At no point did she express such sentiment Raocha. Saying you can understand why some people would be upset though you don't necessarily agree with them, is not bigotry, it's empathy.

I personally have no issue with a mosque being built anywhere, Muslims weren't responsible for 9/11, idiots were and idiocy knows no religion, it's an equal opportunity state of mind. However, I can see how it would bother some people, and not being from NYC I don't feel like I should really voice a strong opinion either way. So looks like I'm joining Bookie in the bigot camp... so be it, at least I'll be in good company with her and Drae.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that the notion that the placement of this building is in any way offensive is based on anything but prejudice against Muslims or the willingness to appease people who don't like Muslims. I don't enjoy insinuating that many of the people here whom I believe to be decent human beings have subscribed to a bigoted line of thought, but that's how I see it. If you consider the facts instead of knee-jerk reactionism and cheap sloganeering, this "controversy" makes no sense whatsoever. The people involved with this center have been viciously attacked and slandered for political purposes. End of story.

 

[The Dark King]

Uhhhh NO, NO, NO! Your analogy in regards to the confederate flag clearly reveals what most Americans know about Islam, nothing! Islam is not a radical religion it's a peaceful religion. The faith is twisted by those who wish to use Islam as they see fit for their own purpose. Had a group of Christians slammed into the the World Trade there would be no outcry about building a church not far away. Americans think Islam is a hateful religion and do not fully understand what it's about.

Confederacy wasn't radical either. For the most part it was a bunch of southern states who didn't believe in a big central government that controlled their life and the flag has now been associated with a symbol for those who want the country to go back to a time when blacks were slaves and whites were plantation owners. So my logic is completely on point. Try again sir.

 

[The Dark King]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that the notion that the placement of this building is in any way offensive is based on anything but prejudice against Muslims or the willingness to appease people who don't like Muslims. I don't enjoy insinuating that many of the people here whom I believe to be decent human beings have subscribed to a bigoted line of thought, but that's how I see it. If you consider the facts instead of knee-jerk reactionism and cheap sloganeering, this "controversy" makes no sense whatsoever. The people involved with this center have been viciously attacked and slandered for political purposes. End of story.

Raocha its apparent that you won't budge and neither will anyone else so let it die kid.

 

[Iggy]

Strippers, bars, gentlemen clubs and bookies arent associated with terrorism or the WTC getting destroyed.

Sorry raocha, but your arguement falls flat.

Oh and just recently an Afghan couple was stoned to death (because of adultery). Wow.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38724568

 

[z]

Strippers, bars, gentlemen clubs and bookies arent associated with terrorism or the WTC getting destroyed.

Sorry raocha, but your arguement falls flat.

Oh and just recently an Afghan couple was stoned to death (because of adultery). Wow.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38724568

Right on the money bruh. Strippers, bookies and lingerie store are not associated with Anti-american terroism crap. But these pics remind us what a democratic, capitalist, beautiful America has to offer.

 

[raocha]

Confederacy wasn't radical either. For the most part it was a bunch of southern states who didn't believe in a big central government that controlled their life and the flag has now been associated with a symbol for those who want the country to go back to a time when blacks were slaves and whites were plantation owners. So my logic is completely on point. Try again sir.

Your analogy is absurd. The Confederate flag has a history of being used as a symbol of opposition to integration and equal rights for African Americans in the South during the 20th century that is far removed removed from the Civil War and the brief existence of the Confederate States of America. We're not talking about a small group of radicals who thought that flag was representative of certain repugnant aspects of Southern society. It was a mainstream representation of the status quo during the Civil Rights era. So much so, that it was placed atop the South Carolina State Assembly in the 1950s by government officials as a symbol of opposition to integration and a direct message to Southern Blacks and Northern "agitators" who were fighting for equal rights. The idea that the support of murderous radical extremism is anywhere near as widely accepted in mainstream Islam is farcical.

BTW the analogy in question only makes sense if you accept the notion that the blame for 9/11 lies with the entire religion of Islam to be true to the extent that any congregation of Muslims, be it in a mosque or a community center, in close proximity to Ground Zero is an insult to the people who died in the WTC. This is an idea that you've denied subscribing to in this thread, so I don't know why you're still bothering to defend what you wrote in that particular post.

Raocha its apparent that you won't budge and neither will anyone else so let it die kid.

You're still defending your POV, so I don't understand why it's inappropriate for me to continue to articulate mine.


[youtube]QZpT2Muxoo0[/youtube]

 

[raocha]

Strippers, bars, gentlemen clubs and bookies arent associated with terrorism or the WTC getting destroyed.

Sorry raocha, but your arguement falls flat.

Oh and just recently an Afghan couple was stoned to death (because of adultery). Wow.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38724568

Right on the money bruh. Strippers, bookies and lingerie store are not associated with Anti-american terroism crap. But these pics remind us what a democratic, capitalist, beautiful America has to offer.

Some of you people who keep co-signing each other and patting each other on the back in this thread need to state your opinion on this point and be up front about it.

Do the lot of you blame the religion of Islam itself and all Muslims for 9/11 or not? There's been some equivocation on that point, and I'd like all of you to clarify it.

If you do view any gathering of Muslims to worship in a mosque or a community center or any other building as a representation of terrorism and violence or you think that anyone who subscribes to that belief should be appeased, then you're either a BIGOT or a person who doesn't have a problem with appeasing the BIGOTRY of others.

I'm sorry that some of you think that's a harsh characterization, but that's the fact of the matter. The opposition to this building is based purely on sweeping generalizations and guilt by association.

 

[z]

Some of you people who keep co-signing each other and patting each other on the back in this thread need to state your opinion on this point and be up front about it.

Do the lot of you blame the religion of Islam itself and all Muslims for 9/11 or not? There's been some equivocation on that point, and I'd like all of you to clarify it.

If you do view any gathering of Muslims to worship in a mosque or a community center or any other building as a representation of terrorism and violence or you think that anyone who subscribes to that belief should be appeased, then you're either a BIGOT or a person who doesn't have a problem with appeasing the BIGOTRY of others.

I'm sorry that some of you think that's harsh characterization, but that's the fact of the matter. The opposition to this building is totally irrational.

Me, andrae, Bookie, Iggy, etc...have already stated that we dont blame the whole religion or the entire muslim population for 9/11 attacks.
All we are saying, it is tasteless to build the mosque at that site, that is all folks!
You are fighting to death for musilms, I hope they feel the same way about you. Few I have seen and met at least overseas have been the most intolerant bunch of folks toward blks and minorities.
Like Iggy said, let see if they are going to tolerate a gay bar next to their cultural center.

 

[Malik True]

Confederacy wasn't radical either. For the most part it was a bunch of southern states who didn't believe in a big central government that controlled their life and the flag has now been associated with a symbol for those who want the country to go back to a time when blacks were slaves and whites were plantation owners. So my logic is completely on point. Try again sir.

You're attempting to compare the confederacy and confederate flags to the practice of Islam??? Oookay! Enjoy I'm out, I no longer converse with folks on a subject in which they know very little to nothing about...

All we are saying, it is tasteless to build the mosque at that site, that is all folks!

UnChosen, if the people who crashed the plane into the World trade were Christian or Jewish would it still be tasteless to build a Church or Synagogue not to far from were the world trade stood?

 

[z]

You're attempting to compare the confederacy and confederate flags to the practice of Islam??? Oookay! Enjoy I'm out, I no longer converse with folks on a subject in which they know very little to nothing about...

UnChosen, if the people who crashed the plane into the World trade were Christian or Jewish would it still be tasteless to build a Church or Synagogue not to far from were the world trade stood?

yes it would. I am unequal opportunitist hater. If they are similar religion fanatics who join an extreme relgious group and blow a building full of innoncent citizens, then yes it would.

 

[Malik True]

yes it would. I am unequal opportunitist hater. If they are similar religion fanatics who join an extreme relgious group and blow a building full of innoncent citizens, then yes it would.

If you had the power to block approval of the Mosque would you?

 

[raocha]

Me, andrae, Bookie, Iggy, etc...have already stated that we dont blame the whole religion or the entire muslim population for 9/11 attacks.
All we are saying, it is tasteless to build the mosque at that site, that is all folks!

Dude, you seriously want to pretend that you didn't just make a post insinuating that the very existence of this building would represent anti-Americanism and terrorism?

Right on the money bruh. Strippers, bookies and lingerie store are not associated with Anti-american terroism crap. But these pics remind us what a democratic, capitalist, beautiful America has to offer.

Really?

:roll:

Okay, let's play it your way.

Why is this whole thing "tasteless" if you don't blame them for the attacks? What's the problem with them building a community center in their own neighborhood where there's already a mosque? Please, give me an explanation that makes a modicum of sense.

You are fighting to death for musilms, I hope they feel the same way about you. Few I have seen and met at least overseas have been the most intolerant bunch of folks toward blks and minorities.

I'll argue against intolerant and reactionary bullshit anywhere I see it in this country whomever it may affect because I don't like it. Seeing people regurgitate pablum without thinking about it really bothers me. I hope I never get pushed out of where I live or work because a bunch of imbeciles start yelling and screaming a bunch of substanceless nonsense about me or the group I belong to on television for political gain.

Like Iggy said, let see if they are going to tolerate a gay bar next to their cultural center.

C'mon dude. Do we have to do this again? I just posted pictures of the strip clubs, porn stores and bars that are already in the area. They don't seem to have an issue with that stuff in the general vicinity of where they plan on putting the community center and the mosque already exists, so it's a bit strange for you to continue to fall back on that talking point.

This thread has been really eye opening. I've grossly overestimated the intelligence of a few people here.

 

[raocha]

yes it would. I am unequal opportunitist hater. If they are similar religion fanatics who join an extreme relgious group and blow a building full of innoncent citizens, then yes it would.

Man, you just can't help yourself. Do you think that there is an inextricable link between radical Islamic extremists and mainstream Islam or not? Yes or no. It's an easy question to answer.

 

[z]

Man, you just can't help yourself. Do you think that there is an inextricable link between radical Islamic extremists and mainstream Islam or not? Yes or no. It's an easy question to answer.

Bro, we are going to agree to disagree on this one. I have already stated that I have nothing against that religion or the followers. I just feel it is tastless to build it in that area, if you think otherwise you're entitled to your opinion.
I am bounce, peace. I am here to laugh and have a good time with WW not to freedom fight for folks who dont give a rat's ass about me or my ppl.

 

[karmacoma.]

Guess this makes it 6,001...

Back in Detroit 20 years ago, the Detroit Public Schools wanted to put a Malcolm X Academy smack in the middle of one of Detroit's last white middle class neighborhoods (Joy Rd. near the Southfield Expressway, any further and you'd be in Redford Township). In Detroit, cops and firemen have to live in the city, so there were a couple of white enclaves left. One of Detroit's dirty little secrets is that they're still trying to get back at white people any way they can. Why else would they put it there? Detroit is known for its blocks and blocks of open land. Shit they're talking about going back to farming there's so much empty land. Yet they just had to put a school with a radical black man's name on it in a white area.

Same argument here with this mosque. Trying to fuck with people. I know it when I see it.

Raocha is usually 100% on point but I'm not feeling him on this one. I'm with unChosen, I hope they're fighting for you as much as you are for them.

We're kinda at war with these people right now. This is wartime. I'm as liberal and nuanced as the best of them, but here's where it gets black and white. Your average, everyday Muslim guy selling hot dogs on the street is making bombs at home. They just caught such a guy in Colorado, Americanized, normal. With a trunk full of bomb-making shit.

The would-be Times Square bomber was an accountant of some sort. White collar guy you wouldn't think twice about.

How about the Fort Hood shooter. HE WAS IN THE FUCKING U.S. ARMY.

I fly a lot. Everytime one of these fuckers tries something, prices go up, hassles go up. I remember when you could go to NYC for $99 round trip and spend a whole weekend there for maybe $300. Now it's almost $300 for the ticket alone.

BHO is a nuanced, balanced cat. I dig that. I voted for the man and still love him. But the President is or should be America's cheerleader first and foremost, and he's got to make shit simple for the masses. They are not law professors, they do not parse. America is far from nuanced and he needs their votes.

We kinda fucked over the Japanese-Americans during WWII but hey, pay their asses after it's over, say you're sorry.

It's fucked up but that's show business.

Re: Ground Zero, it should be a memorial park, period. The "Freedom Tower" is equally offensive to me as a mosque would be. Crass commercialism.

PS I'm still out but just had to put in my .02 on this one.