Ashley Judd criticizes hip hop music/culture

Ymra said:
Yes...you can still objectify a woman even if she doesn't complain about it.
and jobs, education....(etc). All that is an aside to what we are talking about.

...we can "what if" any topic and add on and add too.
Click to expand...

There is no what ifs just what is. I don't think women have it as nearly bad as some people try to make it seem. They are very well protected in my opinion. A woman assaults me its a joke, I assault a woman I'll never work again.
 
MrFantastic said:
There is no what ifs just what is. I don't think women have it as nearly bad as some people try to make it seem. They are very well protected in my opinion. A woman assaults me its a joke, I assault a woman I'll never work again.
Click to expand...

If you are looking on a micro scale...yes. But in the broader sense....no. On a micro scale people can say "Poor blacks and Poor whites are the same" but we both know this is simply not true.
 
empyrium said:
I think she's right, rap/hip-hop for the most part is just gargabe... Also, singing vulgar, profanity-laced lyrics is not my idea of music, sorry, just my opinion.
To those saying rock can also be exploitative, all you have to do is ask yourself how many rock videos have naked women or sex as the main subject, just compare the lyrical content.
Click to expand...

The only truly 'naked' women are in those underground videos that are just a step above porn. But as for sexualized women in music videos?

Whitesnake "Here I Go Again" with his then-wife Tawny Kitaen sprawled all over the hood of his car grinding and undulating. Making your own wife bump and grind for the singles...classy.

Warrant "Cherry Pie" which is ALL about taking a woman's viriginity.

Every single Van Halen video I can think of with the exception of 'Jump' which is a performance video.

Blink 182 put porn star Janine Lindemulder on the cover of their album.

I can go on and on.

I think there is a tendency to read more pathology into every single thing a black person does in this country. I will concede the fact that rap is more blatant or vulgar in its expression, but I won't concede that its unique in its glorification of the crudest behaviors. Almost everything that young men do in every society is crude and sexual in nature, because at that age many of us are booze and hormone-fueled automatons.

As for glorification of crime, try the narco-corridos of Mexican popular music, which are songs about actual bandits glorifying how they continually escape police capture, etc.

Much of rap is in fact filled with ignorant imagery, but not all. And the references to crime and sex are unsurprising. Coming from uneducated black and Puerto Rican men formerly engaged in crime as a way to stop gang fights in 1970s NYC, I would expect nothing less. I love some of it, but definitely not all. And I'm happy to see that an alternative to actually performing those crimes exists for these young men. If people don't like it, they should be active parents and prevent their kids from listening/watching. It's easy. I do it all the time.
 
orejon4 said:
The only truly 'naked' women are in those underground videos that are just a step above porn. But as for sexualized women in music videos?

Whitesnake "Here I Go Again" with his then-wife Tawny Kitaen sprawled all over the hood of his car grinding and undulating.

Warrant "Cherry Pie" which is ALL about taking a woman's viriginity.

Every single Van Halen video I can think of with the exception of 'Jump' which is a performance video.

Blink 182 put porn star Janine Lindemulder on the cover of their album.

I can go on and on.

I think there is a tendency to read more pathology into every single thing a black person does in this country. I will concede the fact that rap is more blatant or vulgar in its expression, but I won't concede that its unique in its glorification of the crudest behaviors. Almost everything that young men do in every society is crude and sexual in nature, because at that age many of us are booze and hormone-fueled automatons.

As for glorification of crime, try the narco-corridos of Mexican popular music, which are songs about bandits glorifying how they continually escape police capture, etc.

Much of rap is in fact filled with ignorant imagery, but not all. And the references to crime and sex are unsurprising. Coming from uneducated black and Puerto Rican men formerly engaged in crime as a way to stop gang fights in 1970s NYC, I would expect nothing less. I love some of it, but definitely not all. And I'm happy to see that an alternative to actually performing those crimes exists for these young men. If people don't like it, they should be active parents and prevent their kids from listening/watching. It's easy. I do it all the time.
Click to expand...

Well put...

I don't think anyone was saying this...I don't think Judd was saying this either.
 
empyrium said:
No one is saying rappers should be branded with any kind of social responsibility, people do what they want to, music won't change the way people act unless they're already predisposed to such behavior, I'm just saying is UNDENIABLE that Rap is pretty much useless culture, the racism excuse is invalid, no one criticizes Blues or Jazz, people should just call a spade a spade, most of the lyrical content in Rap is horrid.
Click to expand...

Yet in their day, blues and jazz were in fact accused of being immoral "race music" that, because it was played by blacks, was licentious in morality, tawdry and sexual. That was also the attack used on rock when it was played by blacks and white teens were dancing to it. Now they have conceded that ground to rap. I think most of hip-hop today sucks, though. You're right about that. But Tribe Called Quest or something like that has nothing to do with Lil Wayne (who I think is garbage).
 
Ymra said:
Well put...

I don't think anyone was saying this...I don't think Judd was saying this either.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I wasn't speaking to the point. I thought there was a segment on here where there was an exchange about rap being the only music that denigrates women and I was trying to dispute that. Thanks for getting me back on track.
 
orejon4 said:
Yet in their day, blues and jazz were in fact accused of being immoral "race music" that, because it was played by blacks, was licentious in morality, tawdry and sexual. That was also the attack used on rock when it was played by blacks and white teens were dancing to it. Now they have conceded that ground to rap. I think most of hip-hop today sucks, though. You're right about that. But Tribe Called Quest or something like that has nothing to do with Lil Wayne (who I think is garbage).
Click to expand...

Well said my friend.
 
orejon4 said:
Yet in their day, blues and jazz were in fact accused of being immoral "race music" that, because it was played by blacks, was licentious in morality, tawdry and sexual. That was also the attack used on rock when it was played by blacks and white teens were dancing to it. Now they have conceded that ground to rap. I think most of hip-hop today sucks, though. You're right about that. But Tribe Called Quest or something like that has nothing to do with Lil Wayne (who I think is garbage).
Click to expand...

man I'm lovin' this!

You know the difference between hip hop and rap has been talked about since rap started. Since Chuck Chill and JUST ICE. Since BDP and The Fat Boys (what I grew up on)...

...and many believe (as do I) that Hip Hop and Rap are one in the same. If Hip Hop is the body, then rap is the voice.

I will tell you this, if you want to SEE hip hop...go to the UK or Japan (yes I said Japan). We have lost sight of that here.
 
Ymra said:
man I'm lovin' this!

You know the difference between hip hop and rap has been talked about since rap started. Since Chuck Chill and JUST ICE. Since BDP and The Fat Boys (what I grew up on)...

...and many believe (as do I) that Hip Hop and Rap are one in the same. If Hip Hop is the body, then rap is the voice.

I will tell you this, if you want to SEE hip hop...go to the UK or Japan (yes I said Japan). We have lost sight of that here.
Click to expand...

That's bs. There are plenty of great American groups they jus don't get the air time the wack dudes get. What about the Roots or Jurassic Five or J. Cole or Jay-Z or even Drake. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it ain't great hip hop.
 
Ymra said:
man I'm lovin' this!

You know the difference between hip hop and rap has been talked about since rap started. Since Chuck Chill and JUST ICE. Since BDP and The Fat Boys (what I grew up on)...

...and many believe (as do I) that Hip Hop and Rap are one in the same. If Hip Hop is the body, then rap is the voice.

I will tell you this, if you want to SEE hip hop...go to the UK or Japan (yes I said Japan). We have lost sight of that here.
Click to expand...
You're so right on that. I love how (just like with jazz) we have lost the best parts of who we are and they are now often done better (with more loyalty to the art form) by others. Jazz, Blues, Rock, and now, yes, Hip-Hop.

The hip-hop scene in Spain is sick. They have some incredible MCs over there and they all say they were influenced by BDP, PE, and all the great lyricists. No one is inspired by Weezy. Or Young Douchebag, or Young (oops, I misspelled it. I meant 'Yung') Clown, or Yung About-To-Be-The-Victim-Of-Police-Brutality or whomever.

Chalk it up to our crass commercialism and willingness to let anything slide for a buck.
 
MrFantastic said:
That's bs. There are plenty of great American groups they jus don't get the air time the wack dudes get. What about the Roots or Jurassic Five or J. Cole or Jay-Z or even Drake. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it ain't great hip hop.
Click to expand...

Micro and Macro brutha.
 
Ymra said:
Micro and Macro brutha.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. You should have stated that before. Now we're on the same page but I won't blame rap as much as commercialism. Every time money comes into it art suffers. Look at movies and books, it's mostly watered down drivel.
 
MrFantastic said:
That's bs. There are plenty of great American groups they jus don't get the air time the wack dudes get. What about the Roots or Jurassic Five or J. Cole or Jay-Z or even Drake. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it ain't great hip hop.
Click to expand...

My previous comment was trying to hit this point. The only thing I've noticed is that the ratio of 'good' to 'bad' hip hop in other countries is reversed with 80% being decent and like 20% being this Cash Money-sounding stuff.

Hang on fam, got my Bustelo brewing! BRB
 
Last edited:
Ymra said:
she's not wrong.

...that is all.
Click to expand...

I was gonna add that she definitely makes some good points. Even a brotha like myself that likes some hip hop has to admit that a lot of the lyrics and subject matter is pretty fuckin vile and over the top (mainly the mainstream stuff)

I do like Talib and he spoke out againist Ashley Judd saying she shouldnt judge the entire hip hop community. Thats a good point too.
 
Last edited:
MrFantastic said:
Are we objectifying women if they're compliant? Especially if they're profiting from it. Women in this country are far from being victims. In fact there are far more jobs for women without educations then there are for men and the recession finally just started hitting the female sector of the job force. In my opinion women in this country have it better than everyone else with exception of rich white privileged men of course.
Click to expand...

definitely agree with this.
 
Iggy said:
I was gonna add that she definitely makes some good points. Even a brotha like myself that likes some hip hop has to admit that a lot of the lyrics and subject matter is pretty fuckin vile and over the top (mainly the mainstream stuff)

I do like Talib and he spoke out againist Ashley Judd saying she shouldnt judge the entire hip hop community. Thats a good point too.
Click to expand...

word and the mainstream underground argument has been going on awhile too.

....Talib needs to sit down man. Hip Hop is some garbage at its current state. and if he doesn't know it, he's not paying attention.
 
Ymra said:
word and the mainstream underground argument has been going on awhile too.

....Talib needs to sit down man. Hip Hop is some garbage at its current state. and if he doesn't know it, he's not paying attention.
Click to expand...

lol agreed.
 
Iggy said:
Ashley Judd's memoir doesn't just deal with her personal life — she also criticizes hip-hop, "with its rape culture and insanely abusive lyrics and depictions of girls and women as 'hos.'" She calls most rap and hip-hop "the contemporary soundtrack of misogyny," and calls out Diddy and Snoop Dogg. Also! Judd writes: "I believe that the social construction of gender — the cultural beliefs and practices that divide the sexes and institutionalize and normalize the unequal treatment of girls and women, privilege the interests of boys and men, and, most nefariously, incessantly sexualize girls and women — is the root cause of poverty and suffering around the world."[/I]
Click to expand...


I'm used to the hip hop accusations, but the root of poverty and suffering around the world due to the sexualization of women, that's sounds ridiculous. Who's spoon feeding her bullshit covered in bullshit, sprinkled with bullshit...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom