Last Names and Marriage

[TreePixie]

If someone's going to cheat, they're going to cheat, Drae, and that's not going to change unless you lock them in a closet- which is against the law. lol

The difference between a partner who cheats and one who does not isn't opportunity, it's honor.

I have not, and would never cheat, because I would not be able to look at myself in the mirror afterwards. DK, I hope you find a woman you can really trust to put the relationship first. When you're in a committed relationship, there's three parties, him, her and the relationship itself. The best kind are when both people put the relationship first, not themselves or even one another.

My opinion, which I know isn't worth jack shit to some folks, but matters to me

 

[TheHuntress]

You're full of shit because you can't have it both ways.

You want some science fiction world where women exist on a plane of equality with men, but wish to retain elements of romantic love that keep women, to quote Mick Jagger, "under my thumb."

Marriage was invented to regulate female sexuality and women like it (now) because it gives them an insurance policy in case they get pregnant. A husband with gainful employment is a more secure option for raising children than a boyfriend or casual lover. Marriage as a form of patriarchal control does not mesh with any meaningful definition of feminist self-empowerment or revolutionary politics.

If you want marriage (to a man), you'll have to accept certain forms of social control that exist as a result of the institution.

Oh, I can't, why? Because you, the Great, Powerful, and All-knowing SATYR says so? Fuck that.

I already said I've met a man who is on the same level with me on that. There aren't many men who are secure enough in themselves to accept that marriage is a partnership- not a buy and sell deal- so they are fine redefining traditional marriage in non-traditional ways. People can have open marriages, so I can definitely have the chance to live my life with the name I choose, even if I wear your ring. Jesus. Closed minded, much?

THANK YOU SATYR.

For what? Continuing to perpetuate the lingering stereotype that women are property? For being archaic, outdated, and closed-minded?

There was a time when people said 'You can't marry someone who doesn't have the same skin color as you! Either you're a good Christian or you aren't, but you can't have it both ways!'... and some brilliant folks said 'oh, I can't? Watch me.'

Gosh you guys just get more ri-fucking-diculous by the hour.

 

[The Dark King]

Oh, I can't, why? Because you, the Great, Powerful, and All-knowing SATYR says so? Fuck that.

I already said I've met a man who is on the same level with me on that. There aren't many men who are secure enough in themselves to accept that marriage is a partnership- not a buy and sell deal- so they are fine redefining traditional marriage in non-traditional ways. People can have open marriages, so I can definitely have the chance to live my life with the name I choose, even if I wear your ring. Jesus. Closed minded, much?





For what? Continuing to perpetuate the lingering stereotype that women are property? For being archaic, outdated, and closed-minded?

There was a time when people said 'You can't marry someone who doesn't have the same skin color as you! Either you're a good Christian or you aren't, but you can't have it both ways!'... and some brilliant folks said 'oh, I can't? Watch me.'

Gosh you guys just get more ri-fucking-diculous by the hour.

False equivalency not the same thing. I hate how you and Trixie in particular keep equating racism to sexism. Its not the same the thing in every case. Asking you to take my last name is not the same as being told we can't be together because of skin color. By the way why should any man be buying you a ring you're an independent woman buy it yourself kid.

 

[lippy]

so after observing many threads over time it is clear to me that there is a double standard...the most traditional men want their cake and to eat it to...

take my name but don't expect too much child support or an equal division of property...no alimoney for you even though you gave into my traditional values...had my children...stayed home to raise them...i'm sorry things didn't work out but get your ass back into the workforce because you aren't getting shit from me...i could care less if you supported me through grad school...that was sweet honey but this is war and i am taking every dime with me...

 

[TheHuntress]

False equivalency not the same thing. I hate how you and Trixie in particular keep equating racism to sexism. Its not the same the thing in every case. Asking you to take my last name is not the same as being told we can't be together because of skin color. By the way why should any man be buying you a ring you're an independent woman buy it yourself kid.

I do, actually. I have plenty of rings and jewelry that I've purchased myself, to the extent that I have to have it insured as part of my homeowner's policy. I don't ask for anyone to buy me a ring, so stop try to deflect.

It's not false equivalency- sex and race are two things people cannot help, and sex and race are both two things that people use to categorize and reduce their value as human beings.

By virtue of your skin color, there was a time when people thought...really BELIEVED you carried diseases, were only good for hard labor, and were too stupid to ever be educated. That you couldn't be left alone with a white woman, because you were no better than an animal.

By virtue of my sex, there was and is a time when people thought...REALLY BELIEVE/D that I'm a delicate flower that needs to be protected, that I'm too stupid to make my own decisions, that I can't go out into the world alone without an escort because it could reflect badly on my family and my honor. That I need a father and then a husband to guide me. My virginity is the guarantee that I'm worth something (as evidenced by the dowry that used to be paid!), as is my ability to carry a son.

You truly see no parallels there? Come on now.

Asking me to take a name is one thing, but getting pissed off and indignant because I said 'Thank you kindly, but I prefer to keep my own name.' is another thing entirely.

 

[TheHuntress]

so after observing many threads over time it is clear to me that there is a double standard...the most traditional men want their cake and to eat it too...

take my name but don't expect too much child support or an equal division of property...no alimoney for you even though you gave into my traditional values...had my children...stayed home to raise them...i'm sorry things didn't work out but get your ass back into the workforce because you aren't getting shit from me...i could care less if you supported me through grad school...that was sweet honey but this is war and i am taking every dime with me...

EXACTLY.

And they talk about the women as if we are the ridiculous ones.

 

[The Dark King]

I do, actually. I have plenty of rings and jewelry that I've purchased myself, to the extent that I have to have it insured as part of my homeowner's policy. I don't ask for anyone to buy me a ring, so stop try to deflect.

It's not false equivalency- sex and race are two things people cannot help, and sex and race are both two things that people use to categorize and reduce their value as human beings.

By virtue of your skin color, there was a time when people thought...really BELIEVED you carried diseases, were only good for hard labor, and were too stupid to ever be educated. That you couldn't be left alone with a white woman, because you were no better than an animal.

By virtue of my sex, there was and is a time when people thought...REALLY BELIEVE/D that I'm a delicate flower that needs to be protected, that I'm too stupid to make my own decisions, that I can't go out into the world alone without an escort because it could reflect badly on my family and my honor. That I need a father and then a husband to guide me. My virginity is the guarantee that I'm worth something (as evidenced by the dowry that used to be paid!), as is my ability to carry a son.

You truly see no parallels there? Come on now.

Asking me to take a name is one thing, but getting pissed off and indignant because I said 'Thank you kindly, but I prefer to keep my own name.' is another thing entirely.

1. Talk about insensitive and believing your own bs. Are you asserting that sexism did and still exists while racism is something of the past?

2. No is getting indignant just simply expressing why a relationship with a woman who wants all the perks of a traditional marriage, monogamy and a binding legal contract that makes me financially responsible even if we break up, yet you want to say no to taking your man's name. A symbol of unity and familial continuity. To each is own do what you want.

3. I never tried to deflect you were the one who made the statement that buying a ring doesn't mean we own you so why is your independent take no prisoners self allowing anyone to buy you anything. You can do it on your own.

4. I've said this before that a white woman in the US trying to equate sexism in this country to racism in this country is like trying to equate being on assaulted on the street to being assaulted in prison. One can happen but rarely does the other is likely to happen and usually does.
In this country ww are the most protected breathing entities next to white female children. So like I said FALSE EQUIVALENCY

 

[The Dark King]

EXACTLY.

And they talk about the women as if we are the ridiculous ones.

Not women just you DB

 

[TheHuntress]

1. Talk about insensitive and believing your own bs. Are you asserting that sexism did and still exists while racism is something of the past?

No, racism still exists. I've seen it firsthand, but it's no longer commonly accepted to go in public and say the things I mentioned out loud to strangers in the street. It pretty much is for most of the stuff related to women. You, as a black man, still make more in the same job than *I* do. Heck, all men and women of other minorities make more than a white woman in the same job... so to talk about racism and sexism as if they're mutually exclusive is to ignore a potential ally standing next to you.

2. No is getting indignant just simply expressing why a relationship with a woman who wants all the perks of a traditional marriage, monogamy and a binding legal contract that makes me financially responsible even if we break up, yet you want to say no to taking your man's name. A symbol of unity and familial continuity. To each is own do what you want.

Did I, at any point, say I wanted a traditional marriage? How many times have you heard me say that I don't agree with monogamy and like the idea of an open relationship? Don't paint me with that BS brush.

A symbol of unity and familial continuity could JUST as easily be going out in public in matching clothes. That's a much quicker way to say 'I'm with him/her' than bothering to introduce yourselves. *rolling eyes* I mean, come on.

3. I never tried to deflect you were the one who made the statement that buying a ring doesn't mean we own you so why is your independent take no prisoners self allowing anyone to buy you anything. You can do it on your own.

Again, how many times have YOU personally heard me say that I don't like people buying me a damn thing? Did I ever SAY I WANTED an engagement ring? Sure, they're pretty sparkly things that are nice to look at on pages, but they're not especially practical. If I want something pretty and sparkly, I'll buy it.

4. I've said this before that a white woman in the US trying to equate sexism in this country to racism in this country is like trying to equate being on assaulted on the street to being assaulted in prison. One can happen but rarely does the other is likely to happen and usually does.
In this country ww are the most protected breathing entities next to white female children. So like I said FALSE EQUIVALENCY

Oh, so now you're equating real life with prison. I get it. What's the phrase...false equivalency? I call it.

 

[The Dark King]

Oh, so now you're equating real life with prison. I get it. What's the phrase...false equivalency? I call it.

Its called an analogy. Meant to compare and contrast two things or situations in order to draw a correlative conclusion. False equivalency relates to trying to equate the qualitative values of two different objects or situations in order to prove equal value of said object or situation. Are you sure you went to college for English?

 

[TheHuntress]

Its called an analogy. Meant to compare and contrast two things or situations in order to draw a correlative conclusion. False equivalency relates to trying to equate the qualitative values of two different objects or situations in order to prove equal value of said object or situation. Are you sure you went to college for English?

That's exactly what racism and sexism are- two correlative items. They are essentially the same. How you can't understand that, I have no idea.

I'm concerned about the level of education YOU received in political science- clearly reading comprehension wasn't a requirement.

 

[The Dark King]

That's exactly what racism and sexism are- two correlative items. They are essentially the same. How you can't understand that, I have no idea.

I'm concerned about the level of education YOU received in political science- clearly reading comprehension wasn't a requirement.

Sexism as it pertains to ww in the United States does not even come close to african american racism since you need it spelled out. And for the time you've been alive its no where near as common as you pretend to be. When ww start getting shot by cops for no reason or put on the frontlines during war or become the least likely demographic to be employed then come talk to me about that shit being the same. You seriously have no clue. You're looking for equal pay there are literally millions of brothas looking for any work they can get.

 

[TheHuntress]

Sexism as it pertains to ww in the United States does not even come close to african american racism since you need it spelled out. And for the time you've been alive its no where near as common as you pretend to be. When ww start getting shot by cops for no reason or put on the frontlines during war or become the least likely demographic to be employed then come talk to me about that shit being the same. You seriously have no clue. You're looking for equal pay there are literally millions of brothas looking for any work they can get.

There you go playing the oppression olympics, as Tree Pixie calls it.

Just because people don't go hanging black men in trees in the South like in that song 'Strange Fruit' doesn't mean racism is dead, right? It's still practiced, even though it's not always in your face.

OK, then.

Same with sexism- and that is bad, too, because it pervades EVERYTHING. Literally, everything. Consider the language you use to talk about a man who's weak...you call him a pussy. Why is a 'pussy' inherently bad? Why is 'throwing like a girl' a bad thing? Because that's how people are conditioned- does that make it right? Course not. At one time, people were conditioned to think that shooting you in the street if you looked at a WW wrong was just fine- as long as they went up and paid your master a few bucks to cover purchasing another slave.

Point is- it's different, but it's very much the same. I don't get why you're even trying to argue it. It just is.

 

[satyr]

I'm not perpetuating shit dumbass, work on your reading comprehension.

If anything I'm giving you a solution to a real world problem; not some fantasy realm of the Amazonian warrior woman where marriage isn't rooted in patriarchal social prescriptions.

But you know what fuck it, get married so you can see undeveloped your reasoning is firsthand.

For what? Continuing to perpetuate the lingering stereotype that women are property? For being archaic, outdated, and closed-minded?

There was a time when people said 'You can't marry someone who doesn't have the same skin color as you! Either you're a good Christian or you aren't, but you can't have it both ways!'... and some brilliant folks said 'oh, I can't? Watch me.'

Gosh you guys just get more ri-fucking-diculous by the hour.

 

[The Dark King]

There you go playing the oppression olympics, as Tree Pixie calls it.

Just because people don't go hanging black men in trees in the South like in that song 'Strange Fruit' doesn't mean racism is dead, right? It's still practiced, even though it's not always in your face.

OK, then.

Same with sexism- and that is bad, too, because it pervades EVERYTHING. Literally, everything. Consider the language you use to talk about a man who's weak...you call him a pussy. Why is a 'pussy' inherently bad? Why is 'throwing like a girl' a bad thing? Because that's how people are conditioned- does that make it right? Course not. At one time, people were conditioned to think that shooting you in the street if you looked at a WW wrong was just fine- as long as they went up and paid your master a few bucks to cover purchasing another slave.

Point is- it's different, but it's very much the same. I don't get why you're even trying to argue it. It just is.

A man is called a pussy because a pussy is soft and throwing like a girl is bad because it's generally weaker than a guys. Find me an over hand pitching girl who can throw a pitch at 120 miles an hour or throw the length of a football field then we can put that to bed but unfortunately you are physically weaker. Blame nature not men.

It's not the same I just painted the inequality as plain as day to you. You aren't being hunted by the people you pay taxes to protect your neighborhoods, you're not being denied the opportunity to work at all let alone climb the corporate ladder, you're not as likely to be arrested and sent to death row for a crime you didn't commit. You're getting mad at simple bs like having to take a last name or getting paid the same as someone for the same job. I'm talking about being allowed the very right to breathe to fucking live DB. How you don't get that is beyond me. There is no oppression olympics because after the marching is done and picket signs go away I'll still be black and you'll still be white and in this country that matters way more than gender. The oppressor ie white men can at least see their mother, wife, sister, daughter in you. What can they see in me? Last time I checked white women weren't swinging in trees in Mississippi while "civilized" people ate their Sunday dinner, I've yet to hear of one being ruthlessly murdered by the cops in a "justified" homicide and no one being held accountable, or my favorite if you go missing it's a country wide crisis I go missing its one less darkie sucking off the government tit. You have the absolute worst kind of white privilege you truly believed you're being oppressed in America and we're fighting the same fight. It's like saying you and children in India are fighting the same war on hunger because you missed lunch and truly "understand" hunger. Smdh.

 

[karmacoma.]

False equivalency not the same thing. I hate how you and Trixie in particular keep equating racism to sexism. Its not the same the thing in every case. Asking you to take my last name is not the same as being told we can't be together because of skin color. By the way why should any man be buying you a ring you're an independent woman buy it yourself kid.

And that's where the "independence" stops.

 

[karmacoma.]

I'm not perpetuating shit dumbass, work on your reading comprehension.

If anything I'm giving you a solution to a real world problem; not some fantasy realm of the Amazonian warrior woman where marriage isn't rooted in patriarchal social prescriptions.

But you know what fuck it, get married so you can see undeveloped your reasoning is firsthand.

She ain't getting married.

 

[TheHuntress]

She ain't getting married.

That sounds like the typical 'If I can't have her, no one can.' Especially since you're jealous enough to be posting about it in other threads that I haven't posted in.

I would almost feel sorry for you, if you weren't such a crusty old codger about it.

 

[TheHuntress]

And that's where the "independence" stops.

Uh yeah, and if you read the post....I don't expect ANY man to buy me a ring. In fact, I don't even like a man buying me dinner, why the fuck would I want him to buy me a ring?

At least I'm consistently non-traditional...and you're consistently misogynistic. The obvious manipulation of my former avatar for yours is a clear example of that.

 

[The Dark King]

Hey DB had to post this for you. So bm out earn ww right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male–female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States