Living in Stuttgart, Germany: My experiences (Pt. 1)

marcolorenzo

marcolorenzo

New Member
Wow, I’ve been loosely following this forum over the last few months and always thought eventually I’ll chime in with my experiences but never got around to it. So, here I go. I’m going to apologize in advance for the length of this monster post as I’m not real good with being brief – especially on these types of topics.

I’m a Black American from L.A. and I’ve been living in Stuttgart, Germany since October 2009, so almost two years now. Why Germany? Well I met my fiancé online about five years ago (BlackPlanet…I know, don’t laugh!) The first year we were talking on the phone or emailing basically every day, the second year it continued but I finally flew to Germany a few times, flew her to L.A. twice and eventually the relationship progressed to the point where I made the decision to move there for a year or two, as the original plan was for her to move to California with me for the long-term assuming our relationship continued to work out

Also, she is Greek, not German although she has spent more than half her life living in Germany. For quite some time I had been very much open to living abroad. I had already done some traveling (Jamaica, throughout Mexico, Canada, Chile) but I had not yet been to Europe. I think I got a little burned out on L.A. life in particular being born and raised there and just kind of had an instinctual feeling I would enjoy living in another country. I just wasn’t sure which one. So, when things got serious with my girl, I decided to make that move.

I hope you don’t mind my addressing a few topics in a very broad, rambling way. It will probably be two posts.

My general impressions of German life

Coming from Southern California, the weather most definitely sucks. I didn’t realize how much it would actually affect me. It can be a downer to have gray skies much of the year. Either it’s raining, snowing or just cold…but almost always gray. I must say though this year hasn’t been that bad and lately it’s been pretty nice actually.

The food also sucks. Okay, ‘some’ German food is pretty good, so I should say the variety and quality of food sucks. Italian restaurants…terrible and bland, Mexican restaurants…a straight joke, it goes on and on. Too often, only in desperation I’ve found myself at Turkish doner shops..or…just cooking my own damn gumbo. There are a few decent spots – an Indian restaurant that was very good, but in general, Germany is not known for its international cuisine.

The people are rude and cold…in general. The pushing, the cutting in line, the lack of personal space, their unwillingness to greet strangers, much less with smile – all of this and more are smaller everyday things that make me not a big fan of everyday German life.

I have heard this is more a European cultural thing, but in quick trips to Paris and Strasbourg and Northern Italy I didn’t get this experience. I also felt those countries had more character, the people were more personable in general especially the Italians. Again, this is just my impression. There are indeed open and friendly Germans but I feel they are definitely in the minority. So, I’m a fan of Europe, not a fan of “Germany.”

Call me a creature of habit or just a spoiled American or maybe even ignorant because when I first got here I really had a difficult time accepting some of the everyday differences between American and European life; seemingly small things but annoying nonetheless such as almost everything being closed on Sundays, warm Soda, no ice, no air conditioning, uncomfortable beds, ugly expensive shoes and clothes in limited sizes, small living spaces and I already mentioned the lack of respect for personal space...a big pet peeve for me.

On a side note, I guess it was my naivety but I wasn’t prepared for the constant cold shoulder from Africans. I learned fast, quick and a hurry that they wanted nothing to do with a Black American cat except maybe the attempt to dress in hip-hop gear…(circa 1992).

Thoughts on racism

I know some are going to disagree with me, but I think anyone who comes here thinking Germany is this wonderfully open multicultural love fest they are severely fooling themselves. Aside from some of the neo Nazis in the eastern parts there is not much violent racism. But there is a subtle racism or perhaps a more accurate word would be an ‘ignorance’ or prejudice that is prevalent from my experiences.

I belong to an English speaking expatriate group here in Stuttgart and from time to time I meet up with them at some bar/lounge/restaurant or whatever event may be happening and over the last year or so I’ve gotten into some pretty interesting conversations. A lot of these people are not necessarily Americans as some may assume, they are from all over the world and they want to gather and speak english in a social setting: The group has people from Bagdad, London, Ireland, Australia, Netherlands, Russia, Brazil, so all over, even Germans. Some also have close familial ties to Germany – a lot of times this is their reason for being here in the first place.

Anyway, as you might imagine some interesting conversations can develop and being one of the very few black guys in the group, it seems I get the types of questions they’ve always wanted to ask a black person if they ever had a chance. As the hefeweizens continue to flow, the questions get deeper. Sometimes it’s pretty funny and at other times it gets tiring answering or defending against their stupid ass stereotypes of black people and our lives - the “hood”…”drive bys”…”hip-hop”…our sexual conquests, especially with white girls…big dick jokes and comments…Obama. Just last night I had to check this British guy about his welfare statistics – he basically implied that “the numbers” show poor black people as a burden to the American economy. Wow.

It’s shit like this that really challenges your discipline to not react exactly how they would expect! Instead, you have to remain calm and collected and fire on them in a different manner – The respect eventually comes but this type of thing gets tiring and I feel it is unique to being in Europe – these stereotypical perceptions of the U.S. and Black Americans.

I have gone to school almost my entire life with white students aside from college (Morehouse), I’ve certainly worked with a ton of them, plenty of friends, etc and never have I received as many ignorant ass questions I’ve gotten here in Germany.

In my Business English classes, most of my students are auto engineers or professionals in other industries and again I get similar types of questions from them too. Funny how they start off harmless and once we’ve become “close enough” the real questions begin.

My suggestion…come out and stay for one to three months and soak up the culture and daily lifestyle. Try to not act as a tourist but do the things you will be doing as a full-time resident – go to the store, try to get information for your career, interact with people, travel around locally. Whether or not you are going to be some great catch to German women is only one aspect of things (more on that in a minute), but from my perspective Germany is not necessarily the warm and fuzzy place for brothas that some will advertise it as, so watch out. It can be for some and others, well…it could really suck.

(continued on next post)
 
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Living in Stuttgart, Germany: My experiences (Pt. 2)

(continued from previous post)

I connected with a cat from New York during my first year. Funny in that we were in an Italian restaurant in Germany, two black guys and both of our girls were Greek. The two of us were trying to our best to not stare at each other too much but eventually we injected extra bass in our voice and said “what’s up,” we vibed with each other, exchanged info and we’ve been real cool ever since, hit a few spots with some other dudes. He was here because he used to play semi-pro basketball for a German team and ended up staying here permanently. Plus, he had an older brother who had been here for almost twenty years in the military. So for him, he was visiting his brother in Germany as a teenager and was exposed to that culture early on. He speaks German almost fluently now.

But the reason I bring him up is because contrasting with me, he LOVES Germany. For one thing he had his older brother to kind of help him adapt when he was younger because as he admits there was many a day he was about to kill some of these Germans for the typical rude shit they pull and he just wasn’t used to it.

As he tells it, Germany was so different from the street life he had been living in Brooklyn so suddenly not having to deal with the shit that goes on in that world and having buddies shot up and that type of thing, etc, etc,- Europe was cool. So for him, here is a black dude from New York playing ball overseas, hot German girls and other international girls throwing the P at him from various directions, it was safe, no drama, living in a nice apartment, going to school (he’s now working on his Masters), so for him…hell, Germany is fuckin paradise! And I understand that. So, it really depends on the individual’s situation.

For me, I had no one except my girl and so much of what I was going through she was not able to help me through it. I’m not in the military with a built in group of comrades, I didn’t have any family or friends, couldn’t speak the language. It was rough to say the least. But that was me. Perhaps someone else could be faced with the same set of circumstances and embrace it much better than I did.

During my first months living here there was one ugly incident where a group of young guys drove off from a store parking lot making monkey gestures at me and it just kinda stopped me in my tracks. I was pissed but frozen. I never, never experienced anything like that before. I admit it shook me in the sense that it fed into the frustration and anger I was already going through. At that time, I really hated Germany or I should specify, Stuttgart - I remember wishing their car would magically stall so I could snatch dude up and deal with him. When I think about it, I’m glad that scenario didn’t play out because it would have just made things worse for me.

Someone on this board referenced a video of an Afro-German author talking about the positive side of a multicultural Germany and since I’ve already written a lot I’ll just keep it brief and say I think that was “really” painted from an optimistic point of view in my opinion.

Another hurdle beyond any racist undertones is the challenge of just being American, forget being black. You will discover this is perceived both positively and negatively. Some will treat you better once they find out you are American, some will be genuinely excited to meet you and others will treat you worse viewing you as another uneducated, unsophisticated, gun-toting, McDonald eating, greedy American bully.

German women and black men

I have mixed emotions. For one thing, the finest women in Germany are not even German! They are Turkish (whew, fine!), Russian, the east Africans, etc. German women to me tend to look kind of plain in the face ‘or’ they’re doing way too much – the eyebrows are too thin, too arched, the super fake orange tans, too much make up. So, I don’t know…”they aiight.”

One thing though, and I’m not sure yet if this is a German thing or European, but dammit you will find the phattest asses walking around this place…my goodness. I think it’s in the hips, they tend to have wide hips with thick, plump asses and thighs – real donkey. It’s funny because from the waist up they will look very regular, then from the waist down it’s like…damn! You don’t really see it coming. But in my opinion Germany is the land of the butta face for sure.

Because of this, I definitely have not been sold on the notion that “a lot” of German women are all over black men. First of all, I think that idea is way, way overblown – at least in Stuttgart. Yes, it exists in specific “Black Music” clubs, etc., but to read and hear how some cats describe it as if all you have to do is walk off the plane and they’re all on you…I don’t think so.

Yes, there are some Germans who are open to the idea if approached the right way and a tighter niche group of German women who really target you because they’re hot in the pants over some music video or whatever. But their target mostly ends up being the military guys because that’s pretty much the only place they can reliably find them in the flesh. It seems to me Black American guys who are not in the military are pretty damn rare. We exist, but it’s rare. And while some will date the African guys, from what I understand most definitely prefer a Black American guy for various reasons.

I might also add though if you have some level of decent conversation, have a good style in terms of fashion, physically and how you carry yourself, speak well, and appear to be educated this can definitely upgrade the level of women you can meet. The finest women are not necessarily interested in the whole hip-hop look (at least not to the extreme). They might like the music, but tend to not respect the thug thing. Also, I have noticed a lot of the better looking German women are quite educated and have professional careers, or are currently in school. In fact, Germany in general is pretty well-educated so it certainly doesn’t hurt matters if you are too.

And those German women/girls that ‘do’ like the thug thing or over the top hip-hop heads, well, they’re the ones who usually look kind of fugged up. Nothing to me is more unattractive than an overweight German chick trying to act and talk like she is straight from the hood with a cigarette hanging out of her mouth…awful….just awful.

The bottom line is this – most of the time when I see a black dude with a German woman, I rarely think the girl is all that hot, and usually she’s not. I guess that’s my real problem - the quality. As I said, she might be alright but nothing mind-blowing, no big deal. I don’t know if I am comparing them to L.A. girls or what, but I simply don’t think they’re all that hot…in general.

On the other hand, a few of the most gorgeous girls I’ve ever seen in my life have been here in Germany…but, there’s just not a lot of them – the percentage is low. At the end of the day, the best looking women I’ve seen in the almost two years I’ve been here still have their arms around a German guy. Sorry, but that’s how I see it. Maybe it’s different in Frankfurt, Berlin or where ever.

So from my perspective, it’s not that different from the U.S.! I can really only speak for L.A. and Las Vegas, places I’ve lived where interracial dating is all over the place. It is very, very common whether the girl is white, asian or latina so I hardly see this burning rationale to move your life all the way to Germany for this reason alone – it’s not that serious. If one is so motivated, I would encourage them to travel Europe as a whole – there are some not so highly talked about places where black men can do quite well, like Prague for instance.

What ‘is’ different I think is the level of desire in German women who when they do show interest in you, it can be pretty intense. Sexual attitudes are freer in my observation. – I’m fairly tall at 6’3” and recently at a crowded bar a girl asked me how tall I was. I told her, and then she got a bit closer, reached up to kiss me and asked “what about…here” cupping my package. (The rest of the story is for another thread or website I guess)

Another situation….After having a 30 minute conversation with a middle-aged couple sitting nearby at an outdoor café, the guy starts stuttering and finally asks me if I’d like to share his wife. She just kind of sat there giggling. I assumed he was serious but I passed on that one.

Then there was a woman who referred to her desire for black men as an “addiction” and the way she described the contrast of black and white skin together, her eyes closed, half out of breath as if she were imagining the shit right then and the look on her face, it was kind of over the top and a little funny. Again, I had to pass on that one. It was turn off to be honest.

Maybe I’m corny or just older now, but I’ve already been around and I’m at an age and stage of life where I rather not be someone’s black toy to be blunt. Are you interested only because I’m black? Are you just curious? Don’t get me wrong when I was younger I probably wouldn’t have cared less about “why” a German girl would want to get with me…it would be more like fuck it let’s do this! So I get it, really I do. But these days I just have different feelings about those types of things.

Anyway, closing this long book (again apologies for the length), I think Germany is less about racism and perhaps more about bigotry and prejudice at times. It definitely exists and from my perspective this prejudice is more interrupting to my personal satisfaction here than I would prefer. Still, I think satisfaction is relative to where you come from, where your mindset is, how open to change you are, your ability to adapt to a contrasting environment, your social interactions and the quality of your life once here….so, there is no one answer or right answer, but those are my thoughts for whatever it’s worth.
 
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ML,I'm surprised you met a Greek woman than a German one on BP. On the European end there are more German woman members on BP than the UK or France. On the groups they hardly ever put their two cents I check on them from time to time and somehow they don't say much of anything. I like your story on being a Black person living in Germany since there are a few US bases there. I visited Germany almost every year but, this one. I loved to go to Munich,Koln,Stuttgart,and Manheim. In those nearly 20 years I almost visited every major German city or town and never grow bored. Also,I never rented a car and go on DB every chance I get. Sure there is drama but it does not bother me much. Also,I learn a little more of the Black Diaspora of Germany which is very interesting. I look forward to your next story about living in Germany it is like listening to a Black soldier who was stationed in K-Town and after leaving the Army he wants to stay for good.
 
Soulthinker said:
ML,I'm surprised you met a Greek woman than a German one on BP. On the European end there are more German woman members on BP than the UK or France. On the groups they hardly ever put their two cents I check on them from time to time and somehow they don't say much of anything. I like your story on being a Black person living in Germany since there are a few US bases there. I visited Germany almost every year but, this one. I loved to go to Munich,Koln,Stuttgart,and Manheim. In those nearly 20 years I almost visited every major German city or town and never grow bored. Also,I never rented a car and go on DB every chance I get. Sure there is drama but it does not bother me much. Also,I learn a little more of the Black Diaspora of Germany which is very interesting. I look forward to your next story about living in Germany it is like listening to a Black soldier who was stationed in K-Town and after leaving the Army he wants to stay for good.
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Hey I appreciate it SoulThinker - Back then when I went on BP to be honest, I went through damn near every country on the site taking a look at women anywhere but the U.S. - As it turned out she was the one whose picture caught my eye and right away our dialogue was normal and plentiful. In fact, I thought she was Italian from her picture and of course there is that similarity in features with the the whole Mediterranean proximity.

Also, I've been to Munich a few times and liked it a lot more than Stuttgart as well as I've heard good things about Cologne.
 
Damn this is interesting. I never thought of Germany as one of the more openly liberal places I would consider living but I did always hear about how much the white women loved black guys. To be honest I never found out what areas specifically though.
 
It is not too long in my opinion I love to hear Part II of living in Germany. Also,what I love about Germany are the cybercafes. It was a lifesaver when I was lost going to someone's flat in Berlin. When I found it I did a German verson of Mapquest and reached my destination. I missed going to Germany this year but,I will make a effort to be back next year. It is always a eye opener.
 
marcolorenzo said:
On a side note, I guess it was my naivety but I wasn’t prepared for the constant cold shoulder from Africans. I learned fast, quick and a hurry that they wanted nothing to do with a Black American cat except maybe the attempt to dress in hip-hop gear…(circa 1992).
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I feel ya on this one...Same thing happens in Japan. Those Africans are HATERS! You can smell em a mile away!
 
Amazing! thanks for posting and welcome to the forum!
i will try to do something like that about Australia later

Looking trough my Euro/S.A perspective, i think like the younger euro women are open to have a interracial relationship, on a level that it doesn't even matter.
 
I just have one itty bitty observation in regards to what OP said about Germany vs LA - there is a hell of a lot more bm in LA vs Germany and thus that is why the OP sees a difference, the amount of bm/ww couples there does not really reflect on German women willing to be in an IR. Pointing out the obvious.. . LOL.
 
LA,is nothing like Berlin,Frankfurt,Munich,or any German city when it comes to Black men. There is more intensity of desire of BM in Germany than Cali. In a Faux Oktoberfest in a Cali town or city you will see a German woman with a brother there. You can count with your fingers on their attendence.
 
So from what you've observed there are more bm ww couples in germany than there are in LA?
Soulthinker said:
LA,is nothing like Berlin,Frankfurt,Munich,or any German city when it comes to Black men. There is more intensity of desire of BM in Germany than Cali. In a Faux Oktoberfest in a Cali town or city you will see a German woman with a brother there. You can count with your fingers on their attendence.
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Yes,I do and I had to admit I had not set foot in LA. Also,LA has no downtown and a lot of large towns,with no U-Bahns to connect them. It is hard to believe LA has anything like a German city.
 
Is there anything in downtown LA? Nothing. Less trams and not too many buses. Interracial scene? Unless you are livin large. Clubs? If you are livin large and the boucer lets you in. Nothing is there in the City of Angels. Germany, there is a lot to do for brothers there unlike LA.
 
The Dark Knight said:
Damn this is interesting. I never thought of Germany as one of the more openly liberal places I would consider living but I did always hear about how much the white women loved black guys. To be honest I never found out what areas specifically though.
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I guess you can begin with the larger cities like Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg...also, Cologne. These cities would also likely be easier for you to get settled in compared to the smaller towns and villages. Don't sleep on the smaller towns near those large cities or anywhere throughout Deutschland because those women don't have as much access to BM and their "itch" can be stronger when one crosses their path.
 
marcolorenzo said:
I guess you can begin with the larger cities like Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg...also, Cologne. These cities would also likely be easier for you to get settled in compared to the smaller towns and villages. Don't sleep on the smaller towns near those large cities or anywhere throughout Deutschland because those women don't have as much access to BM and their "itch" can be stronger when one crosses their path.
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Are you still with the Greek girl?
 
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