saintaugusta
New Member
That is so sweet to hear. I hope I find a man that has such good things to say about me behind my back someday.
Your wife has the right attitude.
the old spice guy is stinking up the place
- Thread starter goodlove
- Start date
That is so sweet to hear. I hope I find a man that has such good things to say about me behind my back someday.
Your wife has the right attitude.
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
Cor! I know the perfect place to pluck! I just have to scrape the corn from its roots first!u sick bastaahd
briancali
Member
So white people said it was bad hair?? I think everyone in America is insane.
You sound like my wife, she says that all the time.
briancali
Member
That is so sweet to hear. I hope I find a man that has such good things to say about me behind my back someday.
Your wife has the right attitude.
Thanks i really appreciate that, we had our issues in the past but thank God we worked them out, and it made us stronger as a couple.
dafty pukk
New Member
It's not a misconception at all.
It's an old perception held by many Blacks in America and perpetuated in part by the glorification of White physical characteristics alongside the vilification of Black ones.
The notion has been perpetuated in the States for quite some time in the Black community. Hence the reason why this celebrity used the term and indicated he did NOT have good hair.
That's what it means to you. It could mean that to a lot of people however it does have other meanings besides the one you hold. The racial notions of "good" and "bad" hair as it related to Blacks and Whites is something that has been a part of Black culture in America for quite some time.
Unless the "old spice guy" meant his hair was bad because he killed it off with chemicals and weaves.
He said his hair was "bad" because it was "nappy".
Those were his words, and not an ideology that is new amongst Blacks, just perhaps you.
Of course we do.
The main focus in the film is the extreme lengths that black women are willing to go through in order to look a certain way. A common ideology in the American culture is that the straighter the hair, the prettier the woman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Hair#Themes
You should watch this documentary.
There seems to be an aspect of Black American culture that you aren't familiar with.
Start there, and then maybe move into colorism and what the "paper bag" test was about.
- Daft
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
dafty pukk
New Member
So white people said it was bad hair?? I think everyone in America is insane.
On the contrary, I think you are simply ignorant to certain aspects of Black culture and history and trivializing a complex issue.
I honestly don't know where to begin.
You should start by looking into the hundred(+)-year-old history of minstrel shows, comic strips, news paper ads, films, and other media/venues that have depicted Black as lazy, violent, and monstrous based on their features alone. Playing up on their physical characteristics as indications of savagery, low intelligence, and poor behavior.
From "Birth of a Nation" to "Fantasia", Blacks and Black features have been used in various media to equate to the worst parts of human nature, lack of success, or sheer stupidity.
Ad campaigns old and new (yes even to this day) have always perpetuated the racial ideology that what is associated with Blacks or those of darker skin color is inferior to that associated with Whites.
Blacks too have helped perpetuate such myths and racial inferiority complexes.
Madam C.J. Walker, a Black woman who created beauty and hair products for black women such as hair softeners and "straightening combs" had ads that pushed the notion of Blacks natural hair being inferior to that of straight and smooth hair. This was a common belief for Blacks who lived in a society that bombarded them with imagery and practices that helped ingrain that ideology into the Black culture and mind.
Such notions are pushed in the business world as well, and not confined to the States. Men in India for example are flocking to skin-lightening products as a way to move forward in business. With advertisements specifically telling potential clients their own darker skin is a hindrance.
CNN: Skin whitener advertisements labeled racist
To be quite honest, not acknowledging the historical fact of certain racial characteristics pertaining to Blacks as being portrayed as unappealing would be what is "insane", but then again it could also be due to simple ignorance and not being directly affected by these practices.
Such things affect the psyche of the people targeted by such age-old practices.
Even the old-spice guy isn't immune, because quite frankly, not much has actually changed. Blacks are still underrepresented in television and film in proper roles, and most of the roles presented to our Black youth are either that of a comedian, rapper, or outright thug.
We need more Idris Elba's and less Flava-Flav's.
- Daft
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dafty pukk
New Member
I didn't see that post, but this does explain a lot. You simply don't understand the situation. It's fine, as it doesn't directly relate to you.
My wife is White, and we will be visiting her brother and family in Australia this year.
I wonder if a topic like this might come up?
If so, I'd better get prepared to explain a lot of things.
- Daft
briancali
Member
I didn't see that post, but this does explain a lot. You simply don't understand the situation. It's fine, as it doesn't directly relate to you.
My wife is White, and we will be visiting her brother and family in Australia this year.
I wonder if a topic like this might come up?
If so, I'd better get prepared to explain a lot of things.
- Daft
dafty pukk, I don't think it is only a BA thing, because i hear similar segments among black latinos as well. I also notice this idea of good hair or bad hair among certain African groups too.
dafty pukk
New Member
It's universal.
I didn't go into every aspect of the phenomenon, but yeah, it's pretty widespread.
- Daft
pettyofficerj
New Member
We need more Idris Elba's and less Flava-Flav's.
- Daft
those sons of bitches and their pictures
i agree with the Idris bit tho..we need more aware brothas like him, and less dumbass rapper shit
GQ Brotha
New Member
I just find it hard to knock a guy for stating what he likes when you have countless black women walking around with full sewn in weaves on their heads, that in no capacity reflects their actual hair.
Why are they so ashamed of their own hair to not even wear it, that they rather the hair of a Indian or Asian woman on their head, but then get mad at a black man for saying what he likes.
That makes no sense whatsoever. A billion dollar hair industry lends testament to what is up.
If people lack self confidence within themselves, they will always be at the mercy of what others think of them, these kind of women included.
no doubt.
dafty pukk
New Member
He isn't being knocked for what he likes.
He's being knocked for claiming that his natural hair is inferior to that which is common amongst Caucasians.
He didn't just say "I like straight hair", he said his was "bad" because it was "nappy". You have to look at his comments as a whole, and not just a few parts.
I already explained some of the reasons why.
- Businesses frown upon Black women wearing their hair natural or in braids. There have been lawsuits regarding this.
- Historically the media celebrates features and attributes that the average Black person does not have while vilifying their own attributes.
- There are tons of products aimed at undoing their natural look in favor of what is considered the look of the successful.
- Lack of positive reinforcement.
Absolutely true.
Still, the more successful races on the planet Earth tend to look at themselves as a whole, rather than individuals. I think that has always been a problem for Blacks. They have a "you're on you're own" while I "get mine" approach.
I disagree, it makes absolute sense from a psychological standpoint, and was even purposely used to historically demoralize certain races as a tactic.
It was used because it worked.
Whether it be the evil hook-nosed Jew or the Black African savage, playing up on those racial caricatures can have a damaging impact on the individuals. Numerous studies have shown this.
It is only rational for someone who has natural attributes on the chopping block for centuries to have a complex regarding them. Especially when there is no one to reenforce the fact that those features are beautiful.
Whites don't have that problem because no matter what media they look to, they will see themselves glorified.
It isn't that "White women are just too confident to change their inherent hairstyles", it's that the world isn't telling them they HAVE to.
It's easy to blame the individual but the hair industry speaks volumes to the insecurity the average Black women feels about how her natural features/characteristics.
- Daft
briancali
Member
He isn't being knocked for what he likes.
He's being knocked for claiming that his natural hair is inferior to that which is common amongst Caucasians.
He didn't just say "I like straight hair", he said his was "bad" because it was "nappy". You have to look at his comments as a whole, and not just a few parts.
I already explained some of the reasons why.
- Businesses frown upon Black women wearing their hair natural or in braids. There have been lawsuits regarding this.
- Historically the media celebrates features and attributes that the average Black person does not have while vilifying their own attributes.
- There are tons of products aimed at undoing their natural look in favor of what is considered the look of the successful.
- Lack of positive reinforcement.
Absolutely true.
Still, the more successful races on the planet Earth tend to look at themselves as a whole, rather than individuals. I think that has always been a problem for Blacks. They have a "you're on you're own" while I "get mine" approach.
I disagree, it makes absolute sense from a psychological standpoint, and was even purposely used to historically demoralize certain races as a tactic.
It was used because it worked.
Whether it be the evil hook-nosed Jew or the Black African savage, playing up on those racial caricatures can have a damaging impact on the individuals. Numerous studies have shown this.
It is only rational for someone who has natural attributes on the chopping block for centuries to have a complex regarding them. Especially when there is no one to reenforce the fact that those features are beautiful.
Whites don't have that problem because no matter what media they look to, they will see themselves glorified.
It isn't that "White women are just too confident to change their inherent hairstyles", it's that the world isn't telling them they HAVE to.
It's easy to blame the individual but the hair industry speaks volumes to the insecurity the average Black women feels about how her natural features/characteristics.
- Daft
I definitely concer with you and Like i said before this phenomena goes beyond the American shores, it is a global and world wide issues. Here is a few videos and one that bring us full circle to this reality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcdCBaAY-iA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI5WCNR81YM&feature=related
fair and lovely bleaching creams advertisements.
briancali
Member
A Northern Sudanese women bloggsters write about this issue within her country, and it is a issue in Egypt as well. Those who have course hair.
Egyptian Amerian Hoda Kotb on NBC, constantly raging herself for having so called::? bad hair.
http://wholeheartedly-sudaniya.blogspot.com/2007/07/dark-skin-and-afros-our-worst-nightmare.html
Dark-Skin and Afros-Our Worst Nightmare
I'm not going to generalize this to all Africans. I'm going to speak about my nation. Inferiority complex is implanted in every Sudanese. We constantly bring ourselvesdown. We dislike ourselves. We are always trying to be something we are not. We view ourselves as inferior and others as superior. We need to emancipate ourselves from mental slavery!
The dream of the average Sudanese girl is to marry well and have a lighter skin. Lighter skin is viewed as beautiful (Sudan is not the only one in this case!). We bleach our skins, use lightening creams and use harmful skin-damaging products as long as we become "lighter".
When my mother was young, she lived with her grandmother for 2 years because grandpa was doing his graduate studies in the United States. She was good friends with her aunts because many of them were her age. The result of early marriages of course. Almost all her aunts are light-skinned and so is her mother. My mum got her beautiful skin-tone from her father. She disliked it. It made her feel less attractive. She secretly envied them. One day, she had the most brilliant idea. At least she thought so. She went to have a shower and ended up scrubbing her skin so hard. She scrubbed and scrubbed thinking the black layer will go away leaving a smooth, light-skinned skin tones she always wanted. This didn't happen. She bled instead. She moved on with her life but I don't think she got over it. Ironically, she refused to marry a light-skinned, green eyes Sudanese and prefered my father.
When I was born, I was lighter than her and I had pinkish cheeks. People were amazed at this and my mother was pleased. Later on, I discovered that I inherited her inferiority complex but in another form. It was a typical African female problem. The Afro hair. I was blessed with thick very curly hair. I didn't like it when I was a kid. Mabye because my mother and sister have long straight hair or maybe because my mother didn't like it and she didn't exactly hide that. My family didn't hide this too. I often heard this from my aunts " oh you have a nice skin tone, nice brownish color but you sure didn't inherit your mother's hair". I have my Nubian grandmother's hair, curly and thick. Curls that bounce back. It's African hair. I'm not ashamed of it. Hair represents so much to people. It shows your heritage. But again, aren't my people ashamed of their whole heritage? Why shouldn't they be ashamed of their hair too?
Conversation with mother...
Mum: hey kizzie, we have a wedding tomorrow go straighten your hair
kizzie: why, I will wash it and put some cream. I like my curly hair
Mum: y not straighten it? it will look nice.
kizzie: you go straighten it, I don't like doing so. It doesn't suit me
Mum: well mine doesn't need that, do whatever you want...
So..I'm back from California. I lived by the sea for a week and then next to Bass Lake for a week. We used to go swimming, rent a barbecue boat or just walk around. I'm back with a weird tan ( u know when your body is three different skin-tones) I'm brown and shiny.
Conversation with grandma...
grandma: god, you are darker! what happened?
kizzie: we went to the beach alot, cool huh?
grandma: whatever you say.....
I read an article written by a Nigerian intellectual once related to this topic. He basically blamed some African problems on our inferiority complex. He said that we think of ourselves as inferior all the time. Our self-esteem is low. IT IS. Caucasians are white so they must be happy. White is beautiful. Asians have nice hair. Straight hair is more feminine. Get over yourself people because you are not better than anyone and no one is better than you.
India Arie had to sing about it for people to realize you must be proud of your Afro hair. Toni Morrison had to write a book about it. I just had to experience it to know there is more to me than my hair or color.
Egyptian Amerian Hoda Kotb on NBC, constantly raging herself for having so called::? bad hair.
http://wholeheartedly-sudaniya.blogspot.com/2007/07/dark-skin-and-afros-our-worst-nightmare.html
Dark-Skin and Afros-Our Worst Nightmare
I'm not going to generalize this to all Africans. I'm going to speak about my nation. Inferiority complex is implanted in every Sudanese. We constantly bring ourselvesdown. We dislike ourselves. We are always trying to be something we are not. We view ourselves as inferior and others as superior. We need to emancipate ourselves from mental slavery!
The dream of the average Sudanese girl is to marry well and have a lighter skin. Lighter skin is viewed as beautiful (Sudan is not the only one in this case!). We bleach our skins, use lightening creams and use harmful skin-damaging products as long as we become "lighter".
When my mother was young, she lived with her grandmother for 2 years because grandpa was doing his graduate studies in the United States. She was good friends with her aunts because many of them were her age. The result of early marriages of course. Almost all her aunts are light-skinned and so is her mother. My mum got her beautiful skin-tone from her father. She disliked it. It made her feel less attractive. She secretly envied them. One day, she had the most brilliant idea. At least she thought so. She went to have a shower and ended up scrubbing her skin so hard. She scrubbed and scrubbed thinking the black layer will go away leaving a smooth, light-skinned skin tones she always wanted. This didn't happen. She bled instead. She moved on with her life but I don't think she got over it. Ironically, she refused to marry a light-skinned, green eyes Sudanese and prefered my father.
When I was born, I was lighter than her and I had pinkish cheeks. People were amazed at this and my mother was pleased. Later on, I discovered that I inherited her inferiority complex but in another form. It was a typical African female problem. The Afro hair. I was blessed with thick very curly hair. I didn't like it when I was a kid. Mabye because my mother and sister have long straight hair or maybe because my mother didn't like it and she didn't exactly hide that. My family didn't hide this too. I often heard this from my aunts " oh you have a nice skin tone, nice brownish color but you sure didn't inherit your mother's hair". I have my Nubian grandmother's hair, curly and thick. Curls that bounce back. It's African hair. I'm not ashamed of it. Hair represents so much to people. It shows your heritage. But again, aren't my people ashamed of their whole heritage? Why shouldn't they be ashamed of their hair too?
Conversation with mother...
Mum: hey kizzie, we have a wedding tomorrow go straighten your hair
kizzie: why, I will wash it and put some cream. I like my curly hair
Mum: y not straighten it? it will look nice.
kizzie: you go straighten it, I don't like doing so. It doesn't suit me
Mum: well mine doesn't need that, do whatever you want...
So..I'm back from California. I lived by the sea for a week and then next to Bass Lake for a week. We used to go swimming, rent a barbecue boat or just walk around. I'm back with a weird tan ( u know when your body is three different skin-tones) I'm brown and shiny.
Conversation with grandma...
grandma: god, you are darker! what happened?
kizzie: we went to the beach alot, cool huh?
grandma: whatever you say.....
I read an article written by a Nigerian intellectual once related to this topic. He basically blamed some African problems on our inferiority complex. He said that we think of ourselves as inferior all the time. Our self-esteem is low. IT IS. Caucasians are white so they must be happy. White is beautiful. Asians have nice hair. Straight hair is more feminine. Get over yourself people because you are not better than anyone and no one is better than you.
India Arie had to sing about it for people to realize you must be proud of your Afro hair. Toni Morrison had to write a book about it. I just had to experience it to know there is more to me than my hair or color.
briancali
Member
One of the people that commented from the young lady blog.
I`m not African, I am Asian, and the same mentatlity applies where you can be judged on the shade of your skin. I too am on the darker scale and have felt and heard the bias remarks and attitude from my fellow asians and even other family members. Because of this, growing up, I also developed an inferiority complex. Now I`m older, I still struggle from time to time, but learning to accept who I am and working on my character is more important because its not your outside but what`s inside that counts.
This is real guys, and it not coming out of thin air. It is sad, and a unforunate reality many women have to endure, which is sad indeed.
I`m not African, I am Asian, and the same mentatlity applies where you can be judged on the shade of your skin. I too am on the darker scale and have felt and heard the bias remarks and attitude from my fellow asians and even other family members. Because of this, growing up, I also developed an inferiority complex. Now I`m older, I still struggle from time to time, but learning to accept who I am and working on my character is more important because its not your outside but what`s inside that counts.
This is real guys, and it not coming out of thin air. It is sad, and a unforunate reality many women have to endure, which is sad indeed.
GQ Brotha
New Member
Black women survived just fine for centuries in America without weaves in their head.
And the answer to all this by black women today is to put ridiculous looking weaves in their heads to look like they have said features. Then one would wonder why a guy would have such preferences in his personal life when it comes to something even as simplistic as hair.
I'm a dark skinned black man, if I absorbed everything stereotypical people thought about me as a black man I would be utterly useless in the real world.
And we know there are a lot of stereotypes about black men, do we ever.
I get on with my life and don't need to define myself through the lenses of the media and stereotypes.
I thought black women were strong and independent, why do they care what he thinks about hair, its his personal choice in his life, even after we finish extrapolating it to the historical plight of blacks in America.
It still won't change the fact of what he likes and the fact that I like a woman with her real hair. If you need a headful of weave as a woman, that says a whole lot more about you as a person.
The irony is some of the weaves look plain ridiculous in the real world as they are walking around with it on their heads. But their life their choice, just like isaiah Mustafa has his.
I just find it duplicitous to get on a guy when we all clearly see what features many black women are pursuing when it comes to their own hair.
Not every black woman has the rationale of the business world not liking black women with natural hair. Matter of fact the majority don't, what is their deal then. I think we all know that answer.
We're too busy worrying about what "whites" think about us. When is enough enough. I date white women and I don't waste my time worrying about what white or black folks for that matter think.
Its 2011, live your life and make the best of it is my motto.
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TERRASTAR18
Well-Known Member
with due respest, you are australian. he is american, talking to an american media outlet for american audience using american beauty standards. all of these entites knew exactly what he meant.... so you are incorrect in using ignorance as an excuse for his comments.
TERRASTAR18
Well-Known Member
Black women survived just fine for centuries in America without weaves in their head.
And the answer to all this by black women today is to put ridiculous looking weaves in their heads to look like they have said features. Then one would wonder why a guy would have such preferences in his personal life when it comes to something even as simplistic as hair.
I'm a dark skinned black man, if I absorbed everything stereotypical people thought about me as a black man I would be utterly useless in the real world.
And we know there are a lot of stereotypes about black men, do we ever.
I get on with my life and don't need to define myself through the lenses of the media and stereotypes.
I thought black women were strong and independent, why do they care what he thinks about hair, its his personal choice in his life, even after we finish extrapolating it to the historical plight of blacks in America.
It still won't change the fact of what he likes and the fact that I like a woman with her real hair. If you need a headful of weave as a woman, that says a whole lot more about you as a person.
The irony is some of the weaves look plain ridiculous in the real world as they are walking around with it on their heads. But their life their choice, just like isaiah Mustafa has his.
I just find it duplicitous to get on a guy when we all clearly see what features many black women are pursuing when it comes to their own hair.
Not every black woman has the rationale of the business world not liking black women with natural hair. Matter of fact the majority don't, what is their deal then. I think we all know that answer.
We're too busy worrying about what "whites" think about us. When is enough enough. I date white women and I don't waste my time worrying about what white or black folks for that matter think.
Its 2011, live your life and make the best of it is my motto.
point1-for the first 100 years, they were slaves, so i doubt they were worrying that much about their hair.
point2- alot of women have hair weaves, not just black women, and in regards to mustafa, he has dated women who have had hair extensions in their hair,neve campbell and kathy griffith.
point3- and in regards to the business world, i couldn't disagree with you more. the business world requires certain conservative standards of dress and hairstyle. to get a job you have to look a certain way, so personal choice is limited. their deal is, they lived in the real world, their opinions are based on their life experiences.
point4- it's not about worrying what white ppl think, we live in a large society and in this community we live and work with them, so their views affect our lives. it's not dwelling on anything, it's living.
who you date or don't date it's different from economic opportunities that are afforded to you or not.