Too Thin to Throw a Punch?

The Dark Knight said:
It's not perception its reality sweetheart. A man who is 6'2 and 250lbs is generally stronger and more threatening than a man who is 5'9 and 160. I'm sure there are instances where it might not be true but generally it is. I think the disconnect also comes from women never having to really respect size and strength amongst each other since you guys aren't usually physically violent with one another. I can admit my approach to an altercation with a man much bigger than me is different than one much smaller.

And I often surround myself with women smarter than me unfortunately the ones I normally attract romantically aren't lol.
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Ah, but you see....it was once established fact that white people were smarter than black people, period, and no amount of anything could ever change that. That's all I'm saying. I'm well aware that men are generally better at upper body strength, and generally more likely to be physically violent (which isn't necessarily a good thing, IMO)

Some guys rely on that too much. I once spent an hour at the climbing gym watching this guy give his wife shit about how she would never be a "real" climber because she had no upper body strength. They'd both taken their first lesson that day. So when he went off to the bouldering cave, I pulled her aside and taught her a few things. He came back about a half hour later, still puffing out his chest. I offered to belay him on a climb. He could not get past the first move, period. Must have tried about 10 times. I offered, after he gave up, to belay "the little woman." He laughed his head off and said "Oh, she won't even be able to get ON that climb, don't be so stupid." Naturally, I smiled and said "Well, why don't we see?" She scooted right to the top, and he stood there with his mouth hanging open. He was so proud of his upper body strength, he totally failed to realize that flexibility, footwork, balance and technique will outperform trying to do pullups for 40 feet Every Single Time.

As for the dim women you've been attracting, honey, maybe if you want a smart woman you have to act like men are not inherently superior. Most really smart women find that either tiresome, or a bit hilarious.

The world no longer runs on biceps.
 
FG said:
Now that is awesome!:-)

How is it looking right now?
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They've evacuated much of lower NY and all of Long Island. They just evacuated the town 15 minutes from me. The wind damage isn't as much of concern as the flooding and the power outages. I'm trying to keep things as charged as possible. It's kind of eerie the calm before the storm and all. The people are a little panicked since we've never dealt with anything like this before.
 
curleyblonde said:
Maybe because when I was in Chi I was alone, and in NY I had was not... Maybe I just needed the right guide, perhaps a local to show me around.
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You were alone :smt017, you know I would have shown you around...I wish all you Aussie ladies would have come at the same time...
 
The Dark Knight said:
They've evacuated much of lower NY and all of Long Island. They just evacuated the town 15 minutes from me. The wind damage isn't as much of concern as the flooding and the power outages. I'm trying to keep things as charged as possible. It's kind of eerie the calm before the storm and all. The people are a little panicked since we've never dealt with anything like this before.
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My sister says it's been pouring in Boston all day, but they're more worried about flooding and surge than wind at this point. Hang in there. Make some food up ahead of time in case you lose power.
 
The Dark Knight said:
It's not perception its reality sweetheart. A man who is 6'2 and 250lbs is generally stronger and more threatening than a man who is 5'9 and 160. I'm sure there are instances where it might not be true but generally it is. I think the disconnect also comes from women never having to really respect size and strength amongst each other since you guys aren't usually physically violent with one another. I can admit my approach to an altercation with a man much bigger than me is different than one much smaller.

And I often surround myself with women smarter than me unfortunately the ones I normally attract romantically aren't lol.
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There you are going again. Its not about a general difference is size and strength, we aren't arguing that. Its obvious that a 250 lb man has more punch and intimidating appearance than a 150 lb woman - However, that does not mean that a woman can be very effective as a cop or firefighter - its not black and white - there is a whole grey scale here. Just because that 250 lb cop is intimidating doesn't mean that women can not be.
I don't get your always black and white view of things.
You take a definite , black and white stand and that doesn't work here.

This is not me doing a "pc many, not all thing". This is about you saying women don't make good cops and firefighters when that has been proven wrong. The authority thing, I'm not even gonna go there.
 
TreePixie said:
Ah, but you see....it was once established fact that white people were smarter than black people, period, and no amount of anything could ever change that. That's all I'm saying. I'm well aware that men are generally better at upper body strength, and generally more likely to be physically violent (which isn't necessarily a good thing, IMO)

Some guys rely on that too much. I once spent an hour at the climbing gym watching this guy give his wife shit about how she would never be a "real" climber because she had no upper body strength. They'd both taken their first lesson that day. So when he went off to the bouldering cave, I pulled her aside and taught her a few things. He came back about a half hour later, still puffing out his chest. I offered to belay him on a climb. He could not get past the first move, period. Must have tried about 10 times. I offered, after he gave up, to belay "the little woman." He laughed his head off and said "Oh, she won't even be able to get ON that climb, don't be so stupid." Naturally, I smiled and said "Well, why don't we see?" She scooted right to the top, and he stood there with his mouth hanging open. He was so proud of his upper body strength, he totally failed to realize that flexibility, footwork, balance and technique will outperform trying to do pullups for 40 feet Every Single Time.

As for the dim women you've been attracting, honey, maybe if you want a smart woman you have to act like men are not inherently superior. Most really smart women find that either tiresome, or a bit hilarious.

The world no longer runs on biceps.
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What does rock climbing have to do with being a physical presence or being able to stop a physical altercation?

I get that upper body strength doesn't always mean absolute power but in regards to what we're talking about it means a lot. Have you ever taken real martial arts where you spare and fight? I have more than half my life. There's a reason why they seperate fights by weight class. Using the old tired white people use to think they were smarter defense doesn't hold up. In my entire life I've never come across a woman who did martial arts who was better than any of the men at her skill level. And I'm talking since I was 12. Don't believe me ask all the men on here in the military or who have studied martial arts.
 
FG said:
There you are going again. Its not about a general difference is size and strength, we aren't arguing that. Its obvious that a 250 lb man has more punch and intimidating appearance than a 150 lb woman - However, that does not mean that a woman can be very effective as a cop or firefighter - its not black and white - there is a whole grey scale here. Just because that 250 lb cop is intimidating doesn't mean that women can not be.
I don't get your always black and white view of things.
You take a definite , black and white stand and that doesn't work here.

This is not me doing a "pc many, not all thing". This is about you saying women don't make good cops and firefighters when that has been proven wrong. The authority thing, I'm not even gonna go there.
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I never said there weren't ANY women that couldn't be intimiditing just the ones they usually hire
 
The Dark Knight said:
What does rock climbing have to do with being a physical presence or being able to stop a physical altercation?
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That strength isn't a black or white thing, nor is superiority or intimidation based solely on upper body strength.

Using me as an example, you've seen my photo. I'm tiny, which is why I'm Pixie. People meeting me in person are ALWAYS convinced I'm at least 5'7" because of my presence. My cleaning lady and I are the same height, and even looking at the two of us in the mirror she still says I must be taller and hiding it. Presence isn't always up to size.

I get that upper body strength doesn't always mean absolute power but in regards to what we're talking about it means a lot. Have you ever taken real martial arts where you spare and fight?
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No. When I was climbing regularly, however, the guys in my department at work brought all the stuck jars to me, because my hands were stronger than theirs. I don't get into physical fights because I don't live in on the Savannah where I have to outrun cheetahs, nor in a war zone. Most people in the US don't.

I have more than half my life. There's a reason why they seperate fights by weight class. Using the old tired white people use to think they were smarter defense doesn't hold up. In my entire life I've never come across a woman who did martial arts who was better than any of the men at her skill level. And I'm talking since I was 12. Don't believe me ask all the men on here in the military or who have studied martial arts.
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I don't have to ask anyone, my nephew is in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame, so I'll take his word for the fact that there are women who can outfight even him.

You do get hung up on just sheer upper body strength. Float like a butterfly sting like a bee works too, many times. And the fact is, as I said before, the world doesnt run on bicep power anymore.

I'd be happy to have you come do my floors and windows, though, if you really want to display your upper body strength ;-)
 
The Dark Knight said:
I'm going to respond to both you and FG in this post since you guys love selectively reading lol. I respect you both but lets be real that Obama comparison and the one I made about women authority figures is a false equivelancy. I'm talking about actual physical ability not perceived ability. Criminals are more likely to do dumb shit with a cop they think they can over power opposed to one they know will give them a challenge and like I said if most female cops were those physical exceptions that were 5'10 and above 160 lbs then I'd be all for it but there's a shit load of girls 5'2 to 5'5 walking around like they got big balls and its laughable. I just know for me and most people when there's social break down I would feel happier with men stronger than myself protecting me and mine.

I know I come across sexist but I'm not I often love being around women who are smarter than me and who can teach me something. Just got my ass kicked in chess the other night by one of my female friends but when it comes to the world of physicality I respect what I know and have experienced to be true. I grew up doing Oyama karate and we had sparring sessions with the women and it was a flat out joke. We had to punch at half strength and slower speed to not hurt them. Not to say the female brown belts and black belts weren't great at forms and katas and awesome with weapons but when it came to fighting it wasn't a contest. I remember doing a class where we were punching focus mitts and I was punching light because I didn't want to hurt my partner when actually punched with full force I lifted her off her feet so when I say this shit it's not from ignorance guys.

Btw Swirl comparing a 135 lbs man to a 135 lbs woman is another false equivilency. Men naturally have more upper body strength. I'm sure there are cases where it probably happened but more often than not its not even close. Again there's a reason why they separate men and women in sports and its not to protect egos from possibly losing to women.
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I'll start by saying that I respect you as well, but I will call foul on your comment about false equivalency. In fact, you are guilty of selective reading my friend. Your comments were not only about strength, they were about people having the presence to be an authority figure. Presence has as much to do with how you carry yourself as how your physicality. So, in that regard, the analogy was appropriate. Btw, you can't go back and change the original premise in order to view your argument in a more favorable light. Once, you've moved your pawn, that's it.

In the words of FG, you're using extremes to explain away women as policemen in the context of social breakdown. The last time I looked on the streets, I didn't notice mayhem and anarchy. In the normal course of their duties, women can and do perform. I would say that you are using extremes again in referring to the heights of women in uniform as the average height of women is 5'4" with a weight of 150 lbs. There may be some women who are 5'2" but they must be some tough ladies since they still have to meet the physical training guidelines relative to their taller sisters. Also, it's a fact that there're a lot of female prison guards. They do work by themselves often and that's pretty hardcore if you ask me.

I'll agree with you that a diminutive police officer, man or woman might not be an imposing figure to people they stop on the streets, but neither is a grossly overweight male police officer either, and you have plenty of those as well. It's also a good thing that police, men or women, don't make traffic stops or perform other interventions because of the violence against police personnel in general. As an aside, I think this is where Kuni would suggest that their Glocks or Sig Sauers give them cred, along with rigorous training.

Btw, I never compared 135 lb. men and women, that's another case of selective reading. I said that a woman who's well trained, like a professional boxer or MMA fighter, who's 135 lbs and up will kick your butt. That was my point. So, again no false equivalency. Also, in my experience, the average adult male is NOT very physically fit. My brother is a personal trainer and tells me stories every day of men he trains, men your age, who can't perform push ups or chin ups. I've even trained with guys much younger, in their 20's who could do ONE dip between parallel bars or one push up. I'd put FG up with those guys seven days a week, and I believe that she could defend herself against them too, if she was in a desperate situation.
 
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swirlman07 said:
I'll start by saying that I respect you as well, but I will call foul on your comment about false equivalency. In fact, you are guilty of selective reading my friend. Your comments were not only about strength, they were about people having the presence to be an authority figure. Presence has as much to do with how you carry yourself as how your physicality. So, in that regard, the analogy was appropriate. Btw, you can't go back and change the original premise in order to view your argument in a more favorable light. Once, you've moved your pawn, that's it.

In the words of FG, you're using extremes to explain away women as policemen in the context of social breakdown. The last time I looked on the streets, I didn't notice mayhem and anarchy. In the normal course of their duties, women can and do perform. I would say that you are using extremes again in referring to the heights of women in uniform as the average height of women is 5'4" with a weight of 150 lbs. There may be some women who are 5'2" but they must be some tough ladies since they still have to meet the physical training guidelines relative to their taller sisters. Also, it's a fact that there're a lot of female prison guards. They do work by themselves often and that's pretty hardcore if you ask me.

I'll agree with you that a diminutive police officer, man or woman might not be an imposing figure to people they stop on the streets, but neither is a grossly overweight male police officer either, and you have plenty of those as well. It's also a good thing that police, men or women, don't make traffic stops or perform other interventions because of the violence against police personnel in general. As an aside, I think this is where Kuni would suggest that their Glocks or Sig Sauers give them cred, along with rigorous training.

Btw, I never compared 135 lb. men and women, that's another case of selective reading. I said that a woman who's well trained, like a professional boxer or MMA fighter, who's 135 lbs and up will kick your butt. That was my point. So, again no false equivalency. Also, in my experience, the average adult male is NOT a very physically fit. My brother is a personal trainer and tell me stories every day of men he trains, men your age, who can't perform push ups or chin ups. I've even trained with guys much younger, in their 20's who could do more ONE dip between parallel bars or one push up. I'd put FG up with those guys seven days a week, and I believe that she could defend herself against them too, if she was in a desperate situation.
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I guess my biggest issue when I'm honest with myself is that it's hard to respect someone who didn't do the same work to get where everyone else is. The women do a modified test (I know first hand since I took and passed the White Plains Police Exam back in 04) and I guess that's where my dislike for the process of picking female cops come from. It's difficult to see them as equals from that stand point I guess unless their purpose is more to defuse domestic altercations and deal with female criminals then I get it. I'm ok with admitting women do good jobs but to say that men and women do the same jobs as well as each other just doesn't sit well with me. We're designed differently that's just biological and psychological fact.
 
swirlman07 said:
I'll start by saying that I respect you as well, but I will call foul on your comment about false equivalency. In fact, you are guilty of selective reading my friend. Your comments were not only about strength, they were about people having the presence to be an authority figure. Presence has as much to do with how you carry yourself as how your physicality. So, in that regard, the analogy was appropriate. Btw, you can't go back and change the original premise in order to view your argument in a more favorable light. Once, you've moved your pawn, that's it.

In the words of FG, you're using extremes to explain away women as policemen in the context of social breakdown. The last time I looked on the streets, I didn't notice mayhem and anarchy. In the normal course of their duties, women can and do perform. I would say that you are using extremes again in referring to the heights of women in uniform as the average height of women is 5'4" with a weight of 150 lbs. There may be some women who are 5'2" but they must be some tough ladies since they still have to meet the physical training guidelines relative to their taller sisters. Also, it's a fact that there're a lot of female prison guards. They do work by themselves often and that's pretty hardcore if you ask me.

I'll agree with you that a diminutive police officer, man or woman might not be an imposing figure to people they stop on the streets, but neither is a grossly overweight male police officer either, and you have plenty of those as well. It's also a good thing that police, men or women, don't make traffic stops or perform other interventions because of the violence against police personnel in general. As an aside, I think this is where Kuni would suggest that their Glocks or Sig Sauers give them cred, along with rigorous training.

Btw, I never compared 135 lb. men and women, that's another case of selective reading. I said that a woman who's well trained, like a professional boxer or MMA fighter, who's 135 lbs and up will kick your butt. That was my point. So, again no false equivalency. Also, in my experience, the average adult male is NOT a very physically fit. My brother is a personal trainer and tell me stories every day of men he trains, men your age, who can't perform push ups or chin ups. I've even trained with guys much younger, in their 20's who could do more ONE dip between parallel bars or one push up. I'd put FG up with those guys seven days a week, and I believe that she could defend herself against them too, if she was in a desperate situation.
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I've never been much for chin ups or push ups but ONE dip? Seriously? It's not hard to build up your lats, and that counts for as much as anything else in a dip.
 
TreePixie said:
I've never been much for chin ups or push ups but ONE dip? Seriously? It's not hard to build up your lats, and that counts for as much as anything else in a dip.
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Dips are more triceps and chest at least thats what I feel more. Pull ups would probably be more lats
 
The Dark Knight said:
I guess my biggest issue when I'm honest with myself is that it's hard to respect someone who didn't do the same work to get where everyone else is. The women do a modified test (I know first hand since I took and passed the White Plains Police Exam back in 04) and I guess that's where my dislike for the process of picking female cops come from. It's difficult to see them as equals from that stand point I guess unless their purpose is more to defuse domestic altercations and deal with female criminals then I get it. I'm ok with admitting women do good jobs but to say that men and women do the same jobs as well as each other just doesn't sit well with me. We're designed differently that's just biological and psychological fact.
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Ah... look at the bolded part and tell me that isn't a sexist statement in all seriousness. What about my physical or psychological makeup makes me inherently "inferior?" What are you valuing and why are you valuing it higher?

Is it because those are things you think of as male? Are there any psychological qualities that women have which are equal or superior? Why are those being valued as lesser? Is that inherent or is it a cultural construct?

As for strength btw, as soon as you deliver a 9 pound watermelon or a bowling ball out of your ass, pass judgement on "types" of strength

If I didn't like you sweetie, I'd be suggesting you're compensating for something, height, penis size, some way in which you feel inadequate.

You fight so hard to "prove" that the world hinges on upper body strength. It doesn't.
 
The Dark Knight said:
Dips are more triceps and chest at least thats what I feel more. Pull ups would probably be more lats
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Triceps, yes, though I never much felt them in the chest. Lat pull downs were also a favorite of mine. When I was in good climbing shape I found it hard to find a trainer who understood how to work with me.
 
TreePixie said:
Ah... look at the bolded part and tell me that isn't a sexist statement in all seriousness. What about my physical or psychological makeup makes me inherently "inferior?" What are you valuing and why are you valuing it higher?

Is it because those are things you think of as male? Are there any psychological qualities that women have which are equal or superior? Why are those being valued as lesser? Is that inherent or is it a cultural construct?

As for strength btw, as soon as you deliver a 9 pound watermelon or a bowling ball out of your ass, pass judgement on "types" of strength

If I didn't like you sweetie, I'd be suggesting you're compensating for something, height, penis size, some way in which you feel inadequate.

You fight so hard to "prove" that the world hinges on upper body strength. It doesn't.
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Holy Mary Mother Of God now you're just picking a fight woman. I never placed any value on anything I just by our natural physical abilities there are things men are going to be better at than women will be. Do you think women can remove trash or do manual labor as well as men? No value judgment on the job just the performance. You're definitely seeing what you want to see with my posts Trix. Where's your feminist outrage that women are being forced to take modified tests to be on the police force? They do fewer pushups on their knees, they run a slower time and do less sit ups. If they can do everything just as well as a man can why isn't there a movement and an uproar about that?
 
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