Too Thin to Throw a Punch?

The Dark Knight said:
I guess my biggest issue when I'm honest with myself is that it's hard to respect someone who didn't do the same work to get where everyone else is. The women do a modified test (I know first hand since I took and passed the White Plains Police Exam back in 04) and I guess that's where my dislike for the process of picking female cops come from. It's difficult to see them as equals from that stand point I guess unless their purpose is more to defuse domestic altercations and deal with female criminals then I get it. I'm ok with admitting women do good jobs but to say that men and women do the same jobs as well as each other just doesn't sit well with me. We're designed differently that's just biological and psychological fact.
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I agree that men and women are biologically and psychologically different, but that's not the determining factor in this matter. In fact, I challenge the premise of "same work". Testing standards are arbitrary at best, and often unfairly favor one group in favor of another. As an example, it was discovered quite a few years ago that the College Aptitude Tests, the SAT and the ACT, contained a level of racial bias. Colleges and Universities took notice and admitted African American students in spite of small differences in scores. They found little to no difference in the success rate of students admitted under this new criterion. In fact, they found that the tests were counter-indicators of success in many cases. As a result the tests were reviewed and changes were made in the tests.

My point is that it's important to look at the REAL requirements for the job. If the testing requirements unfairly advantage one group, because they truly don't reflect what's required in the real world, then it's appropriate to have different training standards, in my view.

If the training standards were so important, the officers would have to ensure throughout their career, through repeat testing, that they continue to maintain those levels of fitness "required" for the street. But, they aren't required to do so, and that really tells the story. Testing is a means of keeping people out, but it doesn't recognize whether people can do the job.
 
swirlman07 said:
I agree that men and women are biologically and psychologically different, but that's not the determining factor in this matter. In fact, I challenge the premise of "same work". Testing standards are arbitrary at best, and often unfairly favor one group in favor of another. As an example, it was discovered quite a few years ago that the College Aptitude Tests, the SAT and the ACT, contained a level of racial bias. Colleges and Universities took notice and admitted African American students in spite of small differences in scores. They found little to no difference in the success rate of students admitted under this new criterion. In fact, they found that the tests were counter-indicators of success in many cases. As a result the tests were reviewed and changes were made in the tests.

My point is that it's important to look at the REAL requirements for the job. If the testing requirements unfairly advantage one group, because they truly don't reflect what's required in the real world, then it's appropriate to have different training standards, in my view.

If the training standards were so important, the officers would have to ensure throughout their career, through repeat testing, that they continue to maintain those levels of fitness "required" for the street. But, they aren't required to do so, and that really tells the story. Testing is a means of keeping people out, but it doesn't recognize whether people can do the job.
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Maybe that's why most cities have shitty police departments
 
The Dark Knight said:
Holy Mary Mother Of God now you're just picking a fight woman. I never placed any value on anything I just by our natural physical abilities there are things men are going to be better at than women will be. Do you think women can remove trash or do manual labor as well as men? No value judgment on the job just the performance. You're definitely seeing what you want to see with my posts Trix. Where's your feminist outrage that women are being forced to take modified tests to be on the police force? They do fewer pushups on their knees, they run a slower time and do less sit ups. If they can do everything just as well as a man can why isn't there a movement and an uproar about that?
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I dont think women should take modified tests. I've said that on this forum before.

As for removing trash? Um. Weekly, my son sucks at the only chore he's supposed to do.

Women who are on their own have to do all the "manual" and physical stuff that goes into running a house. Shoveling snow, cutting grass, repairing things, hanging wallpaper, painting, all that stuff. If you're talking about the people who drive around and pick up everyone's trash, why can't a woman do that job? It's not like trashbags weigh 200 pounds, even full.
 
TreePixie said:
I dont think women should take modified tests. I've said that on this forum before.

As for removing trash? Um. Weekly, my son sucks at the only chore he's supposed to do.

Women who are on their own have to do all the "manual" and physical stuff that goes into running a house. Shoveling snow, cutting grass, repairing things, hanging wallpaper, painting, all that stuff. If you're talking about the people who drive around and pick up everyone's trash, why can't a woman do that job? It's not like trashbags weigh 200 pounds, even full.
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I meant sanitation lol
 
The Dark Knight said:
I meant sanitation lol
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Yeah, picking up the trash. If I can pick up the bag and carry it to the curb, why can't I pick up the bag and toss it in a truck?

It's not exactly my ideal job, but I don't see that there's anything to it that requires exceptional fitness or strength. Certainly the guys who pick up mine are not exactly specimens of physical fitness. I think one of them has a meth problem, the other guy appears to have a donut addiction.
 
TreePixie said:
Yeah, picking up the trash. If I can pick up the bag and carry it to the curb, why can't I pick up the bag and toss it in a truck?

It's not exactly my ideal job, but I don't see that there's anything to it that requires exceptional fitness or strength. Certainly the guys who pick up mine are not exactly specimens of physical fitness. I think one of them has a meth problem, the other guy appears to have a donut addiction.
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I guess it depends on how populated your area is because the dudes around here look like they just got out of jail lol
 
I think I understand were Dark Knight is coming from.

An intimidating presence DOES do a lot on a person psychologically. People do think twice before they attack a 6'4" man vs. a 5'7' man. This is not to say the 5'7" guy couldn't hold his own but PSYCHOLOGICALLY there is a difference. A DOMINATING presence can control a situation a lot easier and can even avoid violence in many situations. This is not saying anything about females or short men but a dominating presence does make a difference. We call it " the guy walking around with the BIGGEST stick".

I think this is what Dark Knight was trying to say in so many words.

Now, as far as cage fighting goes. When cage fighting first started about 15 years ago here in the U.S., it was started by this GRACY family who were into Brazilian karate. They had this son, ROYCE GRACY, who was winning most of the tournaments. Some of us in the military were interested because we wanted to see what style won the most in ACTUAL combat.

Back then it was done mostly underground because people looked at cage fighting as no different than dog fighting. ROYCE GRACY won the first two or three tournaments but cage fighting started catching on with a lot of people. Soon you had people from many different styles, Tae Kwon Do, Ju-Jitsu, etc. You also had guys with fourth and fifth degree black belts or Masters as many of them were called.

As time went on, you started noticing that most of those Masters would get beat up in a cage fight, they lost all the time. Then you noticed the common thing with the guys who won the most that they had wrestling experience. They could fight you standing up or on the ground. When they got you on the ground, they could put you in a strong hold where you can't do anything then beat you until you pass out.

Cage fighting or MMA, UFC and anything else they call it today is how people naturally fight EVERYWHERE. When its one on one, you're grabbing each other, swinging wildly, etc., pure survival instinct. When fighting up close like that, most men will beat a woman .... period.
 
ArmyRanger said:
Cage fighting or MMA, UFC and anything else they call it today is how people naturally fight EVERYWHERE. When its one on one, you're grabbing each other, swinging wildly, etc., pure survival instinct. When fighting up close like that, most men will beat a woman .... period.
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And how many people actually fight, period? I haven't noticed people wrestling in the streets. I've never been in a physical fight, nor cleaned up a man who had been in one. Just doesn't seem that common once you get out of middle school.
 
TreePixie said:
And how many people actually fight, period? I haven't noticed people wrestling in the streets. I've never been in a physical fight, nor cleaned up a man who had been in one. Just doesn't seem that common once you get out of middle school.
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Damn Trix the man, who I assume is an Army Ranger by his tag, explained in great detail why a man would be more efficient in a fighting situation and now you go to how many people actually fight?
Come on that's beneath you. That's what we've talking about for pages.
You tried to paint a picture where women were just as efficient at fighting as men are in hand to hand combat and refused to listen when you're that's not the case.
 
ArmyRanger said:
I think I understand were Dark Knight is coming from.

An intimidating presence DOES do a lot on a person psychologically. People do think twice before they attack a 6'4" man vs. a 5'7' man. This is not to say the 5'7" guy couldn't hold his own but PSYCHOLOGICALLY there is a difference. A DOMINATING presence can control a situation a lot easier and can even avoid violence in many situations. This is not saying anything about females or short men but a dominating presence does make a difference. We call it " the guy walking around with the BIGGEST stick".

I think this is what Dark Knight was trying to say in so many words.

Now, as far as cage fighting goes. When cage fighting first started about 15 years ago here in the U.S., it was started by this GRACY family who were into Brazilian karate. They had this son, ROYCE GRACY, who was winning most of the tournaments. Some of us in the military were interested because we wanted to see what style won the most in ACTUAL combat.

Back then it was done mostly underground because people looked at cage fighting as no different than dog fighting. ROYCE GRACY won the first two or three tournaments but cage fighting started catching on with a lot of people. Soon you had people from many different styles, Tae Kwon Do, Ju-Jitsu, etc. You also had guys with fourth and fifth degree black belts or Masters as many of them were called.

As time went on, you started noticing that most of those Masters would get beat up in a cage fight, they lost all the time. Then you noticed the common thing with the guys who won the most that they had wrestling experience. They could fight you standing up or on the ground. When they got you on the ground, they could put you in a strong hold where you can't do anything then beat you until you pass out.

Cage fighting or MMA, UFC and anything else they call it today is how people naturally fight EVERYWHERE. When its one on one, you're grabbing each other, swinging wildly, etc., pure survival instinct. When fighting up close like that, most men will beat a woman .... period.
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Thank you for expressing what I was trying to say sir. It's like I'm speaking Chinese most of the time by the way some of these people act lol.
 
The Dark Knight said:
I guess my biggest issue when I'm honest with myself is that it's hard to respect someone who didn't do the same work to get where everyone else is. The women do a modified test (I know first hand since I took and passed the White Plains Police Exam back in 04) and I guess that's where my dislike for the process of picking female cops come from. It's difficult to see them as equals from that stand point I guess unless their purpose is more to defuse domestic altercations and deal with female criminals then I get it. I'm ok with admitting women do good jobs but to say that men and women do the same jobs as well as each other just doesn't sit well with me. We're designed differently that's just biological and psychological fact.
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Can I ask if you mean all jobs??????


Btw, Thank you Swirlie for your vote of confidence:-) I have to agree (:cool:), I am stronger and have more stamina than the majority of the males at my gym (and I am referring to the regulars) and that is a fact. LOL.
 
The Dark Knight said:
Damn Trix the man, who I assume is an Army Ranger by his tag, explained in great detail why a man would be more efficient in a fighting situation and now you go to how many people actually fight?
Come on that's beneath you. That's what we've talking about for pages.
You tried to paint a picture where women were just as efficient at fighting as men are in hand to hand combat and refused to listen when you're that's not the case.
Click to expand...

I'm asking a question, DK. I don't see a lot of people fighting. And no, I said nothing at all about hand to hand combat.
 
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