Views On Mo'Nique's Oscar Win

[Loki]

Harry Potter was at least a step forward -- before it, there were no Black characters in mainstream Fantasy at all. At least Harry Potter had some Black friends. At least Ginny dated a Black guy in one of the books.

Agree 100%, I thought it was very brave of Rowling to portray a young IR romance, even described a scene where Ginny and Dean were kissing. Very positive step, however it was not all good news, Dean's back story was that he never knew his father as he ran out on the family when he was very young, yet another negative stereotype of Black men.

 

[The Dark King]

I understand that.I do.

Perhaps since Im not born here , I cant fully grasp the whole effect.
There is clearly not enough black people in the Hollywood industry, writers, porducers and so on. That is painfully obvious,

But in this case, should the movie not been made then??????
Or cast w Gabrelle Unions in it? Whats your thought on that

What would the black community said if Mo'nique did not get the Oscars?

I think she did a stellar job but I guess the annoyance comes from the fact that black people are always casted in the most horrible situations to be recognized. Mo Nique - abusive incentous mother
Denzel- crooked cop
Halle Berry- poor trailer park trash getting banged out by the guy who imprisoned her man.
We don't get great roles like 300 or Gladiator that show incredible depth of a character. You'd never see a movie like Hurt Locker do well if it was a mostly black cast. I guess the problem is never being allowed to be seen as anything but trash, low lives, or having no capability of moving past poverty other than crime without that being the theme of the movie. Sure we get leads in action flicks like Hancock and Blade but never for something that requires emotional depth like Gangs of New York or the Patriot. I would love to see a movie like Braveheart set in Sub Saharan Africa where the main struggle wasn't about the struggle between black and white, I guess I want proof that the masses don't see us as just criminals and punchlines. I'd love to see romance and drama things that show really great acting.

 

[Loki]

I understand that.I do.

Perhaps since Im not born here , I cant fully grasp the whole effect.
There is clearly not enough black people in the Hollywood industry, writers, porducers and so on. That is painfully obvious,

But in this case, should the movie not been made then??????
Or cast w Gabrelle Unions in it? Whats your thought on that

What would the black community said if Mo'nique did not get the Oscars?

FG, very astute and insightful of you to recognize that you may not have the background to feel this reality as deeply as others, well done. As far as whether the film should have been made or not, I quote Dr. Earl Hutchinson's book, "The Assassination of the Black Male Image", in the chapter, "Why are they waiting to exhale" he states, "I don't condemn hollywood for making movies with negative stereotypes of Black men, I condemn them for making so many of them that they are the norm".

If Mo'nique lost the Oscar, you are right, there would have been an outcry from some corners of the Black community, while others would have been relieved that she did not win for such a negative role full of historical stereotypes. If you remember, there was a lot of backlash from some in the Black community when Denzel and Halle won Oscars for roles many (including myself) felt promoted negative stereotypes.

 

[FG]

I think she did a stellar job but I guess the annoyance comes from the fact that black people are always casted in the most horrible situations to be recognized. Mo Nique - abusive incentous mother
Denzel- crooked cop
Halle Berry- poor trailer park trash getting banged out by the guy who imprisoned her man.
We don't get great roles like 300 or Gladiator that show incredible depth of a character. You'd never see a movie like Hurt Locker do well if it was a mostly black cast. I guess the problem is never being allowed to be seen as anything but trash, low lives, or having no capability of moving past poverty other than crime without that being the theme of the movie. Sure we get leads in action flicks like Hancock and Blade but never for something that requires emotional depth like Gangs of New York or the Patriot. I would love to see a movie like Braveheart set in Sub Saharan Africa where the main struggle wasn't about the struggle between black and white, I guess I want proof that the masses don't see us as just criminals and punchlines. I'd love to see romance and drama things that show really great acting.

I oh SO get that, and it bugs the crap out of me. I hate any stereotype. Its one of my pet pieves.

Im not talking all movies Andrae, I wanna know about this movie in particular.

I dont see this movie as "art".

It was a potential important piece of work shining light on an inner city issue that affects more people than we like to think.
Abuse in all its forms lay near to my heart and I think there needs to be more discussions about this.
People tend to stick their head in the sand in regards to this issue - it is an uncomfortable issue) and I think making movies about it, could be used as an opportunity to spark a discussion.

I was an important movie with a lot of messages, unlike a most empty Hollywood movies. And Im happy it was made....
What I would like to know is how should you guys think this movie should be handled.

 

[LA]

What I would like to know is how should you guys think this movie should be handled.

There's nothing wrong with the movie.

The movie is great.

Nothing should change with the movie.

The award was a good thing.

Its just that some people would have rather seen the award being given for something more 'inspiring' and 'progressive' and not so 'cliche' or 'one step back in history'.

I don't see how you don't understand what everyone is saying?

 

[Carter]

hate

 

[Loki]

I oh SO get that, and it bugs the crap out of me. I hate any stereotype. Its one of my pet pieves.

Im not talking all movies Andrae, I wanna know about this movie in particular.

I think I understand what you are saying here FG, abuse is an important and for many a very uncomfortable topic. If the film sparks debate that leads to more attention given to aid such situations, we can all agree that would be a very good thing. That being said, from our perspective Precious is just another in a LOOOOOOOONG line of negative, dysfunctional, base, denigrating, and de-humanizing, portrayals of Black people that have been the norm for literally centuries. We are simply sick and tired of such portrayals and the very real consequences they can and do bring about in the thoughts, minds and souls of all the people exposed to them on a continual basis.

 

[The Dark King]

I think I understand what you are saying here FG, abuse is an important and for many a very uncomfortable topic. If the film sparks debate that leads to more attention given to aid such situations, we can all agree that would be a very good thing. That being said, from our perspective Precious is just another in a LOOOOOOOONG line of negative, dysfunctional, base, denigrating, and de-humanizing, portrayals of Black people that have been the norm for literally centuries. We are simply sick and tired of such portrayals and the very real consequences they can and do bring about in the thoughts, minds and souls of all the people exposed to them on a continual basis.

Exactly!!!
The problem with films like Precious its just another nail in the coffin of Black progression because its never seen as entertainment its seen as a documentary portraying the hardship that is the monolithic "black" experience. Like I said before can we get something other than a Hotel Rowanda or a Training Day (where Denzel was really the supporting actor in my opinion)

 

[xoxo]

I understand that.I do.

Perhaps since Im not born here , I cant fully grasp the whole effect.
There is clearly not enough black people in the Hollywood industry, writers, porducers and so on. That is painfully obvious,

But in this case, should the movie not been made then??????
Or cast w Gabrelle Unions in it? Whats your thought on that

What would the black community said if Mo'nique did not get the Oscars?

There is in some cases in the African American community a cultural divide.

I hate having to give a sociological bent to it, but there it is. I'm not concerned as I said however because I've put it in my own perspective. The realities of Black people not being in a given field or "equally represented" is not my bag either. "Fixing" Black media image or "finding realistic representation" is akin to enforcing school uniforms to fix education at school. Black organizations will petition various forms of media and then every so often you will get what is described of as tokenism. As if petitioning the major media would result in anything else.

But in this case, should the movie not been made then??????......What would the black community said if Mo'nique did not get the Oscars?

The fact that it was made (financed by Tyler Perry and Oprah I believe) says what. The fact that Urban Fiction is very popular says what? The fact that Karma gets upset when conversations descend in to hip-hop says what? Why do you think the Has Hiphop done more to harm the Black community than good? has over 300 posts and 13,000 views?

Black people who had issues with this movie had issues with it before Monique won the Oscar. The realities of the business we've mentioned coupled with the fact that someone is making MONEY makes some Black people go easy on those who would take certain negative roles. A Black person winning an Oscar for another negative character brings up the ongoing issue of the depiction of Black people in major media.

My perspective...and oh how I love giving it is whatever
I will continue to either morally or monetarily support Black artists who make the art I want to see. If Black people want music that uses the N-word more than any other, if they want to read books about pimps and hoes, and see movies with a cooning drag queen, let them have their "realism".

If White or non Black people base their opinion of me from these images, maybe their opinion wasn't worth having. It's more about me though, but I submit that these images have a worse effect on how Black people see themselves more than how non Black people see us....
I know where I stand culturally and I'm not trying to save or bridge any gaps, I'm too busy trying to do my thing..... you know as they say, do you

 

[bonsaiiKITTEN]

This wasn't a movie that was meant to be uplifting. They're trying to capture the despair of the kind of person who'd sit around collecting welfare letting her daughter be raped blaming all her problems on her child and white people. It's not a pretty picture, but I think it's an honest picture. If you read Push or watched Preciousthe multiracial social worker's chilly indifference to Mary.

I was cool with the film until the card where it says, "For precious girls everywhere." There are so many of these girls in the world that are black, white, Asian, Hispanic, and they're all so invisible to the people who could best help them, maybe because it's so emotionally painful to hear and see their stories. It was a story that needed to be told, and I'll never be blind to this kind of situation again. If you don't like the setting, I'm sorry. It wasn't designed just to bandy around another "Mammy" stereotype; it was to make a point.

 

[chicity]

That's great, and the movie's probably great, but it'd all be a hell of a lot greater if it was a part of a wide scope of movies that included movies where Black people were presented in other ways.

You have to look at the context. The context doesn't include a multitude Black sci-fi movies and Black fantasy movies and Black adventure movies and Black romances and Black artsy movies and Black animated movies and Black slice-of-life movies and Black horror movies and Black suspense movies and Black theater movies and Black period piece costume dramas and Black comic book movies and Black Cowboy movies.

The most critically acclaimed movies by Black people or featuring Black actors are frequently about Black people suffering horribly and treating other Black people terribly. They are about being a mess and living in a mess.

Sometimes they are great, sometimes not. But it is hard to look at only their merits as a movie, or even only in terms of the support they may show others in their situation when that is the ONLY story being told.

White Hollywood actively and obviously kept Black people out of mainstream movies except in the roles they approved, such as mammies and slaves, from the beginning of filmmaking until very recently. In more recent times, the obviousness of the racism is not there, but there are still many roles you do not see Black people playing. We'd like to believe all of that is gone now, but the movies remain for the most part White.

So when a Black movie finally gets through to the mainstream, and it just happens to portray Black people in the way White people have always been cool with, that's a problem. It doesn't matter how good the movie was, or how good the performers were. They may indeed deserve all their accolades. But that's a separate question from how fucked in the head it is that these are still the only types of portrayals of Black people that can be put on the silver screen.

 

[bonsaiiKITTEN]

Sure, there needs to be diversity in black actor portrayal. However, Oprah is a scrupulous enough woman to know at this point in history, a really great all-star cast for The Invisible Man isn't going to knock any socks off. The Color Purple translated beautifully onto film, but Precious has seen more commercial success. If you want to argue it's a symptom of sickness in our society, okay. That's pretty plausible, and that's putting it mildly.

That doesn't take away from the strength of Monique's performance or that this was a monumental film. This was our generation's Paper Moon. I don't think anyone could have done Mary's character so well.

For whatever reason, great screenplays about positive, strong BW aren't being written... At least, not ones that are Oscar-worthy. Fortunately or unfortunately, the entertainment market is more consumer-controlled than ever, and complaining gets nothing. Start looking for great positive African American literature and talking about to friends and family, reviewing on the internet, writing to film companies, because as long as I've been alive, there's been complaining about it, and that hasn't worked in twenty-five years.

 

[chicity]

Sure, there needs to be diversity in black actor portrayal. However, Oprah is a scrupulous enough woman to know at this point in history, a really great all-star cast for The Invisible Man isn't going to knock any socks off. The Color Purple translated beautifully onto film, but Precious has seen more commercial success. If you want to argue it's a symptom of sickness in our society, okay. That's pretty plausible, and that's putting it mildly.

That doesn't take away from the strength of Monique's performance or that this was a monumental film. This was our generation's Paper Moon. I don't think anyone could have done Mary's character so well.

For whatever reason, great screenplays about positive, strong BW aren't being written... At least, not ones that are Oscar-worthy. Fortunately or unfortunately, the entertainment market is more consumer-controlled than ever, and complaining gets nothing. Start looking for great positive African American literature and talking about to friends and family, reviewing on the internet, writing to film companies, because as long as I've been alive, there's been complaining about it, and that hasn't worked in twenty-five years.

I find it odd that you suggest Invisible Man and Color Purple as alternatives.

Why not a Black Avatar?

Actually, the portrayal of Black people in movies has changed notably in the past 25 years. Complaining has worked. As have all the other things you mentioned. I've worked personally to make changes in the industry. I've written reviews, and I supported Black actors and Black independent film and Black independent publishers and even Black comic books. So, and I'm not trying to be mean but I must say, you can take your presumptions about people who complain and stick it where the sun don't shine, because most of the time people complaining are doing so because this means something to them, enough to do something about it even beyond complaints.

Also, I find your faith in Oprah to be excessive. She herself has repeatedly condemned those who have called for more Black people in film.

 

[bonsaiiKITTEN]

I called her a shrewd businesswoman. That's all.

I don't think complaining has changed things, at least not the excessive, do-nothing complaints. It's been changed by a bold set of black men and women taking a chance over and over again with a screenplay or an audition or taking a piece of literature to a publisher, as well as consumers saying, "We like this," or, "We want ________."

I certainly wasn't targeting you as an individual, but I have a pretty good idea of what's going on in literary communities and I'm not totally lost in film. People bitch and whine, but they rarely bring to the table what exactly what it is they want. And I chose those two books because they're somewhat known and they really are a positive testament to black strength and positive qualities in general.

 

[Loki]

And I chose those two books because they're somewhat known and they really are a positive testament to black strength and positive qualities in general.

The Color Purple trotted out numerous negative stereotypes of Black men (an Oprah hallmark), Danny Glover's character in that movie was evil incarnate, how in the hell is that a "testament to black strength"? You are waaaay off on that one.

 

[karmacoma.]

The Color Purple trotted out numerous negative stereotypes of Black men (an Oprah hallmark), Danny Glover's character in that movie was evil incarnate, how in the hell is that a "testament to black strength"? You are waaaay off on that one.

She meant black female strength against the evil Black Man.

 

[bonsaiiKITTEN]

She meant black female strength against the evil Black Man.

You forgot to capitalize Evil. You know, if we're getting right. EBM! You see? (Okay, okay. I'll stop.) At least someone sees that the portrayal of black people in it wasn't completely negative. Thanks.

 

[karmacoma.]

Watching two white women debate Precious is interesting to me.

 

[Loki]

You forgot to capitalize Evil. You know, if we're getting right. EBM! You see? (Okay, okay. I'll stop.) At least someone sees that the portrayal of black people in it wasn't completely negative. Thanks.

Wrong again, you are really missing the point here. To quote Andrea09

"Black people are always cast in the most horrible situations to be recognized. We don't get great roles like 300 or Gladiator that show incredible depth of a character. You'd never see a movie like Hurt Locker do well if it was a mostly black cast. The problem is never being allowed to be seen as anything but trash, low lives, or having no capability of moving past poverty other than crime without that being the theme of the movie".

The color purple fits this description to the letter.

 

[karmacoma.]

You forgot to capitalize Evil. You know, if we're getting right. EBM! You see? (Okay, okay. I'll stop.) At least someone sees that the portrayal of black people in it wasn't completely negative. Thanks.

The Color Purple was a black man bashing movie. I will never see it just as I will never see Precious. Neither film speaks to my reality.