I don't see the big deal about Adele.

Esoterik Dreadz said:
From what i understand Duffy has pulled an Elvis plenty of times in the past not acknowledging the music that influenced her. As for white female singers not enjoying mainstream success in america? You must've have slept walked my way through the 90's because i'm pretty sure we've had Jewel, Alanis Morissete, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Cheryl Crowe...the list goes on. Black singers have just always had better pipes. Right now though, music in general, just sucks all around. But whites have been stealing black musical forms for a while now. Don't be fooled.
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Don't want to get in too big a debate about this but 1) yeah, while the 90s were "okay" for white female singers, but their overall numbers are still nonetheless small in comparison to the overall history of the music genre and 2) over the course of said music history the white female singer to white male singer ratio is pathetic compared to the black female singer to the black male singer ratio. But it is not a big deal because hardly any of your examples treaded into what we refer to as black music.

As for stealing, dude, no need to try to give me a history lesson as if I'm unaware of the legacy of the American music industry. That stuff used to be my passion. And I wouldn't refer to it as stealing anyway, at least not since the early days of rock 'n roll. Black people make music to be enjoyed by the masses and most of the artists don't mind if non-black people like their songs and take up after them. That is a sign of respect when people from different cultures and races flock to the music of another group of people. Is it frustrating though when white America flocks more readily to a white person who specializes in soul or hip-hop music than they do to a black musician? Yes. But I don't blame the white artists themselves for that when that occurs because all they did was make music that they enjoy and admire. We gotta stop throwing away that whole "stealing" charge. Where's the theft? If a Chinese violinist composes new classical music that is clearly of European DNA is he/she stealing too? If an Indian band puts together an album of new delta blues songs is it stealing? Or are these people showing tribute? Ask yourself is there ANYTHING you do in life that was originated by Europeans. If so are you guilty of stealing?
 
Ymra said:
Actually to be very honest, black musicians have begun to abandon traditional black R&B music. It simply does not sell and is not as popular with the general black public. Save for older groups, American blacks have full embraced Black Pop as our main musicale staple.

R&B in the US now lacks, mature subject matter and has created and embraced the fantasy life of "G6 jets and everyone being millionaires" We still have the Rhythm, but we lost the blues.

Many white and European artists have filled that. I have said before, if you want to see a glimpse of R&B and hip hop...go to London and Tokyo (yes Japan) ...

....or find you some small hole in the wall in TN, TX, or LA....for the most port BLACK music in America as we once knew it as been sold to the lowest bidder.
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Absolutely. That is what I wrote earlier. I know of some black people who are upset that Asians are dominating break dancing for God's sake. Shit. At least these Asians are keeping the art form alive. Black people seemed to have forgotten all about it but keep yelling "They're stealing our culture." To be frank., imo, only damaged black people (damaged so much by racism that they've become paranoid) or the overly militant types tend to go down that road.
 
JamalSpunky said:
Don't want to get in too big a debate about this but 1) yeah, while the 90s were "okay" for white female singers, but their overall numbers are still nonetheless small in comparison to the overall history of the music genre and 2) over the course of said music history the white female singer to white male singer ratio is pathetic compared to the black female singer to the black male singer ratio. But it is not a big deal because hardly any of your examples treaded into what we refer to as black music.

As for stealing, dude, no need to try to give me a history lesson as if I'm unaware of the legacy of the American music industry. That stuff used to be my passion. And I wouldn't refer to it as stealing anyway, at least not since the early days of rock 'n roll. Black people make music to be enjoyed by the masses and most of the artists don't mind if non-black people like their songs and take up after them. That is a sign of respect when people from different cultures and races flock to the music of another group of people. Is it frustrating though when white America flocks more readily to a white person who specializes in soul or hip-hop music than they do to a black musician? Yes. But I don't blame the white artists themselves for that when that occurs because all they did was make music that they enjoy and admire. We gotta stop throwing away that whole "stealing" charge. Where's the theft? If a Chinese violinist composes new classical music that is clearly of European DNA is he/she stealing too? If an Indian band puts together an album of new delta blues songs is it stealing? Or are these people showing tribute? Ask yourself is there ANYTHING you do in life that was originated by Europeans. If so are you guilty of stealing?
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I agree with everything you have said here, Jamal...

I did recognize my predeliction for choosing white artists that "sounded" black a little while ago, and have tried to be consciously aware of it, to the point of consciously seeking out black artists that have the same sound that I liked coming from those white artists (usually the old soul sound), including introducing myself to some of the old music (I was repressed as a child, so have much to learn about music of all types)...

I would appreciate it if more young black artists would go back to their roots and start producing music with soul and substance. Then we wouldn't have to (a lot of the time) be so surprised and enamored with new white talent that comes on the scene singing throw-back style... reminding us of stuff we have almost forgotten. If someone could put some names in my ear, I would be most grateful, as I am not really in tune with the music scene apart from the stupid mainstream radio...

Really admire well-done neo-soul too, although very slow to aquire new names, from the lack of exposure...
 
saintaugusta said:
LOL - Maroon 5 does not sing "black music" - it's poppy and mainsteam as can be, and Sting doesn't doesn't sing "black music either, although some of his music is/was inspired by reggae (the Police) and blues/gospel/jazz, etc. - he is inspired by music from all over the world - Middle Eastern (as in "Desert Rose") as well as his own native English folk music.

You don't get to claim ALL good music is "black music", even if a tiny bit of it was inspired by the original American black roots music.

Music is ART, which is ALWAYS inspired by other artists, and is never a completely original thought.
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Maroon 5 is BLACK music...

Sting is BLACK music?

Maybe we should get AL's idea of BLACK music. If used very VERY loosely, any music inspired by traditional black negro spirituals, well that include ever single genre that uses a set 4, 8 repetitive beat measure pattern with a 6 - 8 measure break.

Which includes among other things....

2-step garage
2 tone
4-beat
4x4 Garage
8-bit
Anime
J-Pop
Cadence
Heavy Metal
Drone
Metalcore.

...and on and on and on.

By such a loose understanding it would all be BLACK music. So lets start by getting a clear understanding of BLACK music.

Cuz first Adele and Teena Marie are similar, then Adele SUCKS, and now Sting if BLACK music.

I feel wooozey.
 
saintaugusta said:
And yet it seems, that some black people resent that some white people have embraced old R&B, soul, funk, and the classic artists. If you talk to a lot of young white musicians today, you will find that some of them listened heavily to Sam Cooke, Marvin Gay, Al Green, Muddy Waters, Ella Fitzgerald, Dizzy Gillespie, Cole Porter, Count Basie, Billie Holiday, just to name a few...

Why would black people resent that so much when they don't even listen to it in the first place? If it weren't for public radio and the interest of white and European people, some of the old artists would have died out from obscurity by now...
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the resent stems from the fact that we can see so much of our REAL culture eroding and we are powerless to do anything to stop it. you are totally on point. Rock bands, and even alternative bands grow up listening to the old standards barriers for black music. young black youth grew up idolizing Lil Wayne, and Jay Z as their sense of artistic expression.

....its not about art anymore, its about making easy money.

sad really.
 
Ymra said:
the resent stems from the fact that we can see so much of our REAL culture eroding and we are powerless to do anything to stop it. you are totally on point. Rock bands, and even alternative bands grow up listening to the old standards barriers for black music. young black youth grew up idolizing Lil Wayne, and Jay Z as their sense of artistic expression.

....its not about art anymore, its about making easy money.

sad really.
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The thing is, you're NOT powerless (as a whole, black culture), you're just lazy. You COULD bring pride of real black music back into your culture, but some people just don't want to take the time. Why would that be? MONEY.

And why are more white singers paying more and more attention to old black standards? Because white singers make money off of what you all have discarded. Fact. White people appreciate it, and white people will pay for it. For the record, I bet you Taj Mahal is making more money off of white people nowadays than blacks.

It's really, REALLY sad, and you have nobody to blame but yourselves. You got bored from the "same old shit", but some of us still really like it, no matter WHO is singing it. Sucks to be you.

And I'm not talking to you, Ymra.

Good music is good music - and people who abandon their roots just look like straight up ignorant fools. Others will pick up their scraps and make gold out of what they have so hastily cast aside.
 
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saintaugusta said:
I would appreciate it if more young black artists would go back to their roots and start producing music with soul and substance. Then we wouldn't have to (a lot of the time) be so surprised and enamored with new white talent that comes on the scene singing throw-back style... reminding us of stuff we have almost forgotten. If someone could put some names in my ear, I would be most grateful, as I am not really in tune with the music scene apart from the stupid mainstream radio...
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If you like any blues/old school R&B/rock you will want to give Gary Clark Jr a try. I've been following him for a few years and he is just now beginnig to make a larger name for himself. His music is everywhere on YouTube. All the old heads refer to him as the real deal. The critics love him too.
 
saintaugusta said:
The thing is, you're NOT powerless (as a whole, black culture), you're just lazy. You COULD bring pride of real black music back into your culture, but some people just don't want to take the time. Why would that be? MONEY.

And why are more white singers paying more and more attention to old black standards? Because white singers make money off of what you all have discarded. Fact. White people appreciate it, and white people will pay for it. For the record, I bet you Taj Mahal is making more money off of white people nowadays than blacks.

It's really, REALLY sad, and you have nobody to blame but yourselves. You got bored from the "same old shit", but some of us still really like it, no matter WHO is singing it. Sucks to be you.

And I'm not talking to you, Ymra.

Good music is good music - and people who abandon their roots just look like straight up ignorant fools. Others will pick up their scraps and make gold out of what they have so hastily cast aside.
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The thing is this, and I truly believe it. The soul, guidance, leadership, direction of the black community is the black male. And with so many black males removed this is the product.

LOL...and I know you where talking about me directly.
 
Ymra said:
The thing is this, and I truly believe it. The soul, guidance, leadership, direction of the black community is the black male. And with so many black males removed this is the product.

LOL...and I know you where talking about me directly.
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and the only good black males left marry white women

damn, damn, daaaaaaaaaamn
 
Ymra said:
The thing is this, and I truly believe it. The soul, guidance, leadership, direction of the black community is the black male. And with so many black males removed this is the product.

LOL...and I know you where talking about me directly.
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I agree with you, and I no, I was NOT talking about you.

You have some old fashioned values and I can not picture you turning up your nose at black roots music.
 
JamalSpunky said:
If you like any blues/old school R&B/rock you will want to give Gary Clark Jr a try. I've been following him for a few years and he is just now beginnig to make a larger name for himself. His music is everywhere on YouTube. All the old heads refer to him as the real deal. The critics love him too.
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Thanks for the suggestion, Jamal - I will definitely give him a listen...:D
 
saintaugusta said:
The thing is, you're NOT powerless (as a whole, black culture), you're just lazy. You COULD bring pride of real black music back into your culture, but some people just don't want to take the time. Why would that be? MONEY.
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African culture was stripped from us a long time ago. Everything from African dress to religion to language to the arts was stripped and replaced. Black males and females in America have virtually NO connections or knowledge of our African roots and are more likely ashamed than proud of it. Black Americans carry European names, appreciate European arts, follow European religion... etc.,. etc.,. 'Black' American culture is more Euro influenced than African influenced. Hell, even our education is Euro biased. The fact that black youth walk out of a classroom thinking a white supremacist freed the slaves out of the goodness of his heart should speak volumes. As far as the arts go, in school we're exposed to Beethoven and da Vinci but not so much de Saint-Georges or.... uhm.... I don't know of any African artists.

So where does music come into play? I'd say when you remove someone from their cultural base, there is a huge void left for those cultural tenets to be replaced. MTV and BET did a pretty good job of filling that void. We dress in the styles that the rappers tell us to, we wear the jewelry that they tell us to wear, we drink the alcohol they tell us to drink. So yes, money has something to do with it... but if you really go digging you'll find that it's much deeper than that.
 
jaisee said:
African culture was stripped from us a long time ago. Everything from African dress to religion to language to the arts was stripped and replaced. Black males and females in America have virtually NO connections or knowledge of our African roots and are more likely ashamed than proud of it. Black Americans carry European names, appreciate European arts, follow European religion... etc.,. etc.,. 'Black' American culture is more Euro influenced than African influenced. Hell, even our education is Euro biased. The fact that black youth walk out of a classroom thinking a white supremacist freed the slaves out of the goodness of his heart should speak volumes. As far as the arts go, in school we're exposed to Beethoven and da Vinci but not so much de Saint-Georges or.... uhm.... I don't know of any African artists.

So where does music come into play? I'd say when you remove someone from their cultural base, there is a huge void left for those cultural tenets to be replaced. MTV and BET did a pretty good job of filling that void. We dress in the styles that the rappers tell us to, we wear the jewelry that they tell us to wear, we drink the alcohol they tell us to drink. So yes, money has something to do with it... but if you really go digging you'll find that it's much deeper than that.
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Well said. Even reggae is a mix of cultures/rhythms. Someone mentioned bluegrass a while back in this thread - that clearly has roots in Celtic rhythms and constructs (and was born where a lot of Scots-Irish folk lived in the Appalachia).

African culture was deliberately crushed in this country starting in the 17th century. A little was left in the Caribbean but mixed with Indian & European culture as well.

I don't see even the blues as coming out of African musical roots.
 
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